Howell Family Roath

[gwynfor1945]

I am trying to find information on my Grandmother Margaretta Howell and her family she was born abt 1874 in Newport,Pembrokeshire her parents were John Howell who was a Mariner and Margaretta her Mother,in the 1891 census Margaretta was living at 41 Elm Street,Roath,Cardiff with her Sister Elizabeth her Brother's Howell & William,Elizabeth was married to Thomas Williams & they had a Daughter Sarah M Williams who was age 1,Elizabeth must have died between 1891 & 1896 because Thomas then married her Sister Margaretta in 1896 and Thomas was a Widower,I have searched the census records for Sarah M Williams and can't find her I wondered if she had also died.If anyone can find any information it would be much appreciated.

[KGarrad]

I'm trying to make some sense of your post.

Posted in Carmarthenshire; Margaretta born in Pembrokeshire; living in Cardiff Glamorganshire?

So lets start with the 1891 census:
Reference RG12, Piece 4387, Folio 79, Page 46
41 Elm Street, Roath, Cardiff

Williams, Thomas  Head  M  27  Miller  b Carmarthen, Glyncock Farm
Williams, Elizabeth  Wife  F  24  b Newport, Pembroke
Williams, Sara M  Daughter  F  1  b Cardiff
Howell, Howell  Brother  M  22  Weaver  b Newport, Pembroke
Howell, William J  Brother  M  13  Errand Boy  b Newport, Pembroke
Howell, Margaretta  Sister  F  17  b Newport, Pembroke

The only marriage I can find that fits Margaretta is:

December qtr 1896
Cardigan district    vol 11b, page 12

Williams, Thomas
+ and on the same page +
Howell, Margaretta

[KGarrad]

1901 census:
Reference RG13, 5090, 44, 6
14 Ynysyllyn, Llanelly, Carmarthenshire

Williams, Thomas  Head  M  35  Haulier at Brewery  b Llanelly, Carmarthen
Williams, Margaretta  Wife  F  27  b Newport, Pembroke
Williams, Gwilym H  Son  M  4  b Newport, Pembroke
Williams, Yorath  Son  M  1  b Fishguard, Pembroke


Because of the number of Williams (particularly in Wales  ) and also the number of Thomas Williams,
I am not yet convince that these 2 (1901 census and 1891 census) are one and the same?

It is likely, I'll grant you - but I wouldn't definitely link them just yet.

[gwynfor1945]

Yes they are the same family Gwilym Howell Williams was my Father I have saved both the 1891 & 1901 census records to my tree I have also saved the 1911 census,I know all about my Grandfather Thomas Williams & his children what I am trying to find out is what happened to Thomas's 1st wife Elizabeth & their Daughter Sarah M Williams,I have got the marriage certificate for Thomas & Margaretta so I know this is correct.The reason I posted to Carmarthenshire is because I know they lived in Llanelly,my Father married Agnes Williams in Llanelly abt 1920 & they had 4 Daughters who are my half Sisters,he then left Llanelly during the 2nd World War and moved to Birmingham and mariied my Mother.

[Morganllan]

Williams, Thomas  Head  M  27  Miller  b Carmarthen, Glyncock Farm

I think this should be Glyncoch Farm which is in Llanegwad Parish, near Carmarthen
 
http://www.llanegwad-carmarthen.co.uk/glyncoch.htm

It's very difficult to look for the deaths of Elizabeth Williams and daughter Sarah in BMD! Do you think it would be in Cardiff, Llanelli, or Pembrokeshire?

[gwynfor1945]

Thanks Morganllan for the info on Glyncoch Farm I will have to investigate that.
Regarding the deaths of Elizabeth Williams & Daughter Sarah.
1891 Census:
Lived in Roath,Glamorgan.
Thomas Williams Head age 27.
Elizabeth Williams Spouse age 24.
Sarah M Williams Daughter age 1.
Howell Howell Brother of Elizabeth age 22.
William J Howell Brother of Elizabeth age 13.
Margaretta Howell Sister of Elizabeth age 17.

Marriage 10th October 1896 Cardigan Register Office.
Thomas Williams age 31, Widower, Coach Driver, Long Street Bank Newport. Father James Williams Collier.
Margaretta Howell age 22, Spinster. Long Street Bank,Newport. Father John Howell deceased Mariner.

As you can see Elizabeth died between 1891 & 1896 but I don't know where she died.
Sarah is a mystery did she also die between those dates I don't know this is what I am trying to find out.

[Morganllan]

This is a possible for Thomas Williams in 1871 (if his father became a Collier later):

Ploughbach, Felingwm Uchaf (Llanegwad Parish)

James Williams Head age 33  Ag Lab born Pencarreg
Sarah Williams Wife age 35 born Llanfihangel
William Williams Son age 10 born Llanegwad
Thomas Williams Son age 7 born Llanegwad
Simon Williams Son age 5 born Dowlais, Glam
Essex Williams Son age 2 born Llanegwad

RG10 Piece 5485 Folio 28 Page 3

It's in the same area as Felingwm Mill.


Essex is also in Roath, a grocer on 1901 census, with wife Elizabeth, and children Maggie, Rose, Mabel, Florrie, and Trevor. Address: 73 Portmanmor Rd, Splott.

RG13 Piece 4976 Folio 120 Page 38

[Morganllan]

Looking for a death is definitely not going to be easy!

However, as Thomas and Margaretta married in Cardigan registration district Newport, what about this death from freebmd:

Elizabeth Williams, age 29, in 1895 (Apr-Jun quarter)
Cardigan volume 11b page 1

If you decide to order the certificate, make sure you specify other known details, such as husband's name and likely to be living Newport (Pembs)  rather than, say Cardigan.

Modified to clarify that I meant Newport, Pembrokeshire; and Cardigan registration distict!  

[Morganllan]

Confirmation that James in Reply #6 is the right family for Thomas 

Here they are in 1861 at Clyncoch (alt name Glyncoch), Llechgron hamlet, Llanegwad:

James Williams Head age 22 Ag Lab born Pencarreg, Carmarthenshire
Sarah Williams Wife age 24 Dress Maker born Llanfihangel Rhosycorn, Carms
William Williams Son age 1 month born Llanegwad, Carms

RG9 Piece 4129 Folio 70 Page 1