LESLIE Twins 1911 not registered?

[eregli_gene]

"I think we also need to bear in mind that if the chn were illegitimate and not born in a hospital, their births may not have been registered."

Well that is a pretty big presumption there, too.    How would you ever get into primary school with a birth certificate?

I completely agree with the proposition that,  for "un-official" adoptions,   they are very likely to have been relatives.

[judb]

eegli_gene, no-one needed birth certificates for almost anything until quite late in C20th. 

My mother, born 1917 did not need one until she applied for a passport in 1974.  I did not have one till I got my first full-time teaching job in 1963 (born 1945) - had worked in Coles from 1958 - no ID needed.  No Tax file numbers; you could open bank accounts with no ID etc etc.  No-one asked for ID when you were supplying information for BMDs.

There were very few, if any, checks on adopting parents - TROVE has advertisements as late as the 1950s from people wanting to adopt a baby.  Informal adoptions/fostering was usually not supervised at all. 

As Cando has said there were no adoption laws until the 1920s.

Judith

[sparrett]

Even the forces in ww1 did not ask for birth certificates!

So, not there would not be the slightest difficulty starting school in the early 1900's without one.

I wonder too whether you have slightlly misread Cando's post there regarding the phrasing and "illegimate."

She did not say

AS the chn were illegitimate

But

IF the chn were illegitimate.

Sue 

[heaven]

erigel_gene
I answered your post but it didn't go thru, so here it is again, hope it doesn't come thru twice.
We have always swayed with Catherine being the mother of the twins, but, without evidence who knows? We are trying to step outside the square with our thinking.
Catherine was born 1886, child of William and his first wife Sarah Ellen Edwards.
Electoral rolls for Catherine -
1909-1919   Aberdeen Street, Newtown, Geelong
1924-1931   Point Henry Estate,  Moolap
1936-1949   207 Noble Street,  Geelong
1954             4 Miller Homes, Belmont.       All list her occupation as "Home Duties"

Death       2 Nov 1974   Certificate states usual reidence at Grace McKellar House,  Ballarat Road,  North Geelong  -  Status Not married - unknown parents.  No issue

An elderly cousin contacted us recently and told us that Catherine had converted to Catholicism and was Housekeeper to a priest,  I have tried to find some connection in the Geelong area to no avail.
Judy

[wivenhoe]

Yes, I agree that the matter of them being twins might be worth keeping an open mind about. Not being too pedantic here, but when you say Jean and Stanley were always spoken of as twins, do you mean during his (your father's) lifetime, or was it after.

Do you remember if Stanley or Jean ever identifed themselves as twins?.

It might be that the word was originally used as a term of affection, rather than literally....their shared experience of coming into the Leslie family...they are siblings close in age, or having very similar birthdates and being of whatever relationship to the Leslies?.

There is a WW1 record for William Leslie, horse breaker, 252 Barkly ST.
Left Australia Nov 1915, returned April 1916.

It includes unsuccessful application for injury-related pension.

It names wife Ann, sons Douglas Leslie and Hector Leslie.

[majm]

Hi

I have many instances of twins in my tree including BOTH sides.  Sometimes they were born to unmarried Mums in NSW c1840s to cWWI.  Ie pre formal Adoptions.  In all my instances they were raised by famly members ... ie their grandparents or or aunties/uncles ...  The baptism certs should help in this instance .... In my cases the birth mothers were known as one of  the sponsors...  Families simply raised their own but overlooked telling their world of the details as to which generation the children were born into...

Also, even in the early 1900s  women over 40 had increased chance of giving birth to TWINS and for all 3 to survive .

Cheers JM

It seems to me,  they were unlikely candidates to be adoptive parents,   and also if there were twins for adoption they probably would not have gone to the same place.

If I were a betting person,  my money would be on the lady who became a priest's housekeeper.

[heaven]

Hi Wivenhoe
Yes that is our war record for William.
In regard to the twins, they were acknowledged and known as twins during my dad's lifetime, it was common knowledge in my family that dad was a twin,  however in saying this I have to look outside of the square I guess, and think of them as possibly being very close in age as siblings.
One wonders if we will ever get to the bottom of it.
My brother has considered DNA testing with an elderly male Leslie cousin that we know of.
Judy

[sarra]

Hi Judy,
I'm a little late posting this on the board.  However as you said in your PM -
'One never knows what will come of it'.

Searching through the Victorian  BMD Index I found the following.
Unknown Male - found Royal Park - birth place Hotham East - reg no #29265
Unknown Female     "        "      "         "       "         "          "   - reg no #29266
Year 1911.

Judy - has a copy of these birth records.
Details:
'Both certs identical in info except male child found 5 October 1911 - female child found 14 October 1911 at Smith Ward, Royal Park, Parkville. Both children registered 17 October 1911 at Hotham East, informant was William Musgrove Moulton - Constable 4660, Brunswick West, authorised agent'.
I don't know if anymore information can be found for these two children.

Sarra

[judb]

This article is interesting......
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11625448

and there are some more if you google.

In reply#9 I gave a link which may lead to the records of the Royal Park Institution
There are records for children placed officially in care in Victoria.  I think you may have to go to Melbourne to access them - open to the public after 99 years.

http://www.findandconnect.gov.au/vic/biogs/E000704b.htm

Judith