do crests and/or arms link families in any way?

[bean]

Is it possible to identify links between families bearing the same crest or arms if they have the same surname?

[GrahamSimons]

Lots of info on this site, the College of Arms. For Scotland you need Lord Lyon King of Arms.

http://college-of-arms.gov.uk/About/09.htm

http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/CCC_FirstPage.jsp

[bean]

Thanks for that Graham, I know an ancestor had arms (in my avatar) and another family (of the same name) had the same lion fesse engrailed in the same colours and also had the same crest - the only difference was my ancestor was in Wales and they were in Surrey (from memory).
I was just wondering on the likelyhood of the two families being related.
I suspect, from a quote in the past, that getting the College of Arms to research it may be a n expensive business.

[GrahamSimons]

Yes indeed the College of Arrms will cost you! Might be worth a trawl through some of the relevant books such as Armorial Families, Burke's Armory, Burke's Landed Gentry.... older ones online and some with quite helpful genealogies (which may or may not be correct or fabricated); also the heraldic Visitations.

By the way interesting stuff here http://www.procuratorfiscallyoncourt.org.uk/news.html from Scotland of at least some illegal use of Arms being brought to book!

[bean]

Thanks again Graham, looks as though google will be my friend on this one!

[davidbappleton]

I know an ancestor had arms (in my avatar) and another family (of the same name) had the same lion fesse engrailed in the same colours and also had the same crest - the only difference was my ancestor was in Wales and they were in Surrey (from memory).
I was just wondering on the likelyhood of the two families being related.

While not proof, of course, it certainly increases the likelihood that they were in fact related.

In addition to the books that Graham has recommended, if the family goes back far enough, you may be able to find them in the records of the heralds visitiations of the 16th and 17th centuries.  Some of the visitations can be found on-line on such websites as:

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/visitations.shtml
and
http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/visitations/index.html

Others can be found by searching for "heralds visitations," with or without the name of the county of interest, at:

http://books.google.com/
and/or
http://www.archive.org/details/texts

David

[GrahamSimons]

I see you are resident in Bucks somewhere - might be worth a trip to the Society of Genealogists' Library in London to research this as just about every book you could want on the subject is avaialable!

[bean]

Thanks for the replies - lots to think about and research.
Memory getting worse!!
It should have been Somerset not Surrey and the link was the Griffin sergeant iin the arms (same coulours) and also the crest - not the Lion rampant!
Must remember to check info before asking questions 

[MaecW]

In "The Development of Welsh Heraldry" Michael Powell Siddons identifies "Gules, a Gryphon segreant Or" as belonging to, amongst others, "Davies of Tickenham and Carmarthen". Rees Davies of Tickenham,Somerset, 1623, was the son of Lewis Davies of Carmarthen who used the arms as described, although Rees has them quartered with "Sable a chevron Or between three spearheads Argent,a mullet for difference".
The "Gules, a Gryphon segreant Or" are probably the arms of Llowdden Hen ( (d.abt 1168 ) and are being used to indicate descent from him. This may not be descent in the senior line as Welsh Heraldry in this period did not necessarily follow English practice !

Maec