help with linking me to a 1000 year old Cardigan lineage!!!

[meaty]

Hi and sorry for the delay, had tasks for the working week ahead (sigh).
I have ordered the will from Leeds, so that should arrive within a few weeks. Although the info within it will be of limited assistance (if any) to my attempts to find the link between these 2 families. Its always nice to have a 1st though, and this is my first order of a will. Great stuff.
Ah yes I see what you say regarding the possibility that Sarah is not the mother of Thomas.  If I can locate the birth/christening of Thomas I hope it will be revealed. I will join the familysearch website one night this week and I will have a browse – fingers crossed! Hopefully I will locate the marriage for John and Sarah too.
I have used freereg before now but with very limited success. What are the differences between freereg and findmypast.com in the content they offer? Do you know?

Thanks

[despair]

If Thomas was born/baptised in Llangynllo,there is conflicting evidence as to whether the record will exist online in parish register data if he was "established church".
Genuki appears to say that the records 1784-1812 may have been lost

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llangynllo/#ChurchRecords

The Family search IGI record appears to have a continuous record,or perhaps the years given are just the limits.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyCardigan.htm#L
(I have searched under the batch number and not found anything)

I haven't been down the route of Bishops Transcripts on microfilm myself but here is a reference that might work(does the Genuki page imply they might be at NLW?)

https://familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=425631&disp=Bishop%27s+transcripts  &columns=*,0,0

Given Hannah's record,of course,it may be Non-Conformist records that are appropriate.
Some of these are now available on Ancestry,otherwise it is BMDRegisters(subscription).
I don't know the comparative coverage of these two database nor that between FindMyPast and FreeReg for "established church".FamilySearch has elements of both,but less detail.

I also cannot find a marriage that fits,incluiding searching the NLW marriage bonds database.

You did say you had two other names in the DSM/DJM family.Who are they?Perhsaps their names might lead to a connection.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

You may already know,but this is possibly DJM's brother James living in the same property in 1841 in which DJM is reported as born

1841  1375  26/8  8 - transcribed as Pensingrig or Pensingrug

He is a mariner(given born 1771) with presumably his wife Sarah(given born 1778,Llangranog) in the 1851 census,by which time James has died.

1851  2482  504  19

With the widow Sarah is Anne Jones a  grand daughter,aged 10,a schoolmasters daughter from Llangranog and a married daughter Elinor Lloyd(1813) with children.

It looks possible that Jenkin Morgan referred to his children in date order in his will.There is now
David(c.1752),Jacob(c.1758),Mary(?),Jane(?),James(1771) so his first wife's death would be between 1771 and 1797.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

This looks like James Morgan(s)' family

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WLS-CARDIGANSHIRE/2004-10/1099045228

Although he marries a Sarah James(born c.1777) I can't see a connection with your James connections(e.g sister to James James?),but there is not sufficient info at the moment to entirely rule it out.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

In Jo(h)ana's will she mentions Mary Morgan.Perhaps this is DJM's sister and implies she was a spinster at that point,circa 1812 and also beyond typical child bearing age.This might mean one less candidate to consider for a connection.
There is a Mary Morgan of approximately the right age (given born 1761,"rounded") in the 1841 census at Glyn Coch Uchaf,Llangranog(actually Plwmp) at ref 1375  26/22  12.It's not obvious that any relatives are immediately close by.

Regards
Roger

[meaty]

Well, I don’t know what to say or where to start but firstly I think you deserve a thank you as you have done so much since I was last online.

I will join up to findmypast for the trial period tomorrow night and will have a look for my Thomas Jones christening and also his parents John Jones and Sarah’s marriage.

It would appear to say that the Bishops Transcripts are held at the NLW, so I can always pencil that in for one day in the future, if findmypast is no help.

I have not long cancelled my ancestry membership as I found I was paying significant amounts for something I was not using. If needed though I will just sign up for another month and have a look. I will also look at this FreeBMD register to see what it has.

The two other living members of DSM/DJM family are descended from Anne Morgan, b 1802, daughter of James and Sarah Morgan – James being the brother of DSM/DJM. I have been in contact with one and I have had much help and info regarding the Morgans of Llangrannog. One descendant David Morgan of Llangrannog was a sea captain and moved to South Wales in the 1860’s.

All I know is that Jenkin Morgan’s father, outside of marriage, was (according to the docs in the NLW) David Morgans 1697-1770 squire of Llanborth, Penbryn, whos children mentioned in his will were Nicholas, Griffith, John, Margaret and finally James. So, no mention of Jenkin at all, but hardly surprising given the illegitimacy. This family member, like you, also questioned who Mary Morgan mentioned in Joanas Will was, along with Catherine Evans who is also mentioned (who may be the eldest sister of Christmas Evans).

I was also given the date of Jenkins marriage to Joana Lewis as 1797, in Llandysul and witnesses were John Jones : John Jones, Lochtyn: Thomas David. No Banns. This John Jones of Lochtyn in Llangrannog not only traveled to Llandysul for Jenkins marriage but was also a witness to the wills of both Siencyn in 1801 and Joana in 1812, so a possibly family member.

My correspondence with this descendant was left with me to find out who my ggg grandfather Thomas Jones Trewyddel, Llandissiliogogo’s parents were. I now know they were John Jones of Coed y Bryn, Llangynllo and possibly Sarah, also of Coedybryn. As far as I know, this family member I have been in contact with, knows no link to Llangynllo, except that Joana Lewis and Christmas Evans came from Tregroes, which I am starting to consider now.

For now I am going to draw up all the info I have as to be honest I really need to it as an aid as there are so many names to consider!

[despair]

There is an 1813 will at NLW for Elinor Jones,Lochtyn,Llangrannog who,amongst others names her "eldest son and heir" John Jones.
In 1841 there appears to be two families with this address,Evan Evans(1811) and Sarah Jones(1781-perhaps John's wife/widow?).
I'll see if I can make any connections.

Regards
Roger

[meaty]

Oh wow nice find. The lochtyn link could be a possibility, and a very welcome one too as its my favorite place in the locality. Looking at my tree diagrams that I have just drawn, I  guess a possibility is it could be a link between Thomas' parents John and Sarah Jones of Cefncoed and the Jones of Lochtyn.

[despair]

I may have found a different,and possibly,surprising,connection.
Because there was an assumption that Thomas' parents were identified through the repetition of the CefnCoed address,I decided to look again at the Thomas Jones(1813),Llangoedmor son of Joshua and Elizabeth who appeared to be the wrong one.While that presumably is still the case, there is a grant of administration at NLW  for Joshua Jones(1826) to Elizabeth Jones his widow(which also declares her to be his only living kin?).Importantly,his address is given as Penllwyn du.
It is possible,of course that there are a number of similar addresses in the area,but it is the address given for the death of Dafydd Siencyn Morgan in his biography at NLW

http://wbo.llgc.org.uk/en/s-MORG-SIE-1752.html

This Joshua is given as 1777-1825,and Elizabeth approx. born 1775 in the 1841 and 1851 censuses(where her address is given as Penllwyn).
Perhaps John Jones,the father of your Thomas is related to Joshua or Elizabeth.I haven't yet identified births or a marriage for them.

Regards
Roger