Author Topic: Cambourne: GILL & UREN; GILL & TREWIN; GILL & EDWARDS; EDWARDS & BRIANT  (Read 5020 times)

Offline trestrail

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Currently working on two Cambourne, Cornwall  residents. 

A. maternal grandmother,  7 August 1896 - 23 Sept. 1976 - (Elizabeth Mary Rubina Gill - nee Uren).

B. maternal grandfather, D.O.B.  29 October 1896 - (Horace H. Gill). 

Today just working solely on 3 generations of maternal GILL father & sons.     

1. Horace H. Gill.  1896 - 1946.  (sailed to NY in 1920)  My Grandfather

2. Charles Jasper Gill, 1867 - ?   (plumber)  Great Grandfather (married Alice Maude M Trewin b. 1868)

3. Thomas Hocking Gill, 1827 -  7 Oct 1895.  (tailor by trade) Great Great Grandfather (On 12 Dec 1859 he married Ann Edwards b. 12 Dec 1824 - Father Jasper Edward - Mother Elizabeth BRIANT.

I can't go any further with Thomas Hocking Gill.  I bet there's a Hocking surname somewhere in his ancestry.

I can't go any further with Elizabeth Briant - the mother of Thomas Hocking Gill's wife.

I can't go any further with Jasper Edwards, the father of Ann Edwards. 

Who is Elizabeth Briant?  Parents?  DOB?  Was she born in St. Hilary in 1793? Are her parents Daniel and Mary? 

Who are Jasper Edward's next of kin.  There's a lot of Thomas Edwards!!
 
I can't even use mathematics  to logically deduce finding the next generation because there are two names who could be related but are both born in the same year in towns a few miles apart. 

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. 

in loving kindness,

Linda Trestrail   
Trestrail  - My maiden name -  My Father's side from Hayle
Knight -
Tremlett
Hosking
Powning
Freethy
Matthews
Jenkin
Woolcock
Crocker
Robertson
Holman
Hichens
Badge
Goldsack
Curtis
Uren  - My Mother's side from Cambourne/Gwinear/Wendron/Helston
Gill
Penpraze
Trewin
Hendra
Secombe
Symonds
Edwards
Hocking

Offline osprey

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Re: Cambourne: Gill & Uren; Gill & Trewin; Gill & Edwards; Edwards & Briant
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 12:10 BST (UK) »
have you checked the census for birth places?
marriage info
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=850949
 
1861 College Row, Camborne RG9/1583 folio 17 pg 30
Thomas H Gill head mar 35 tailor b. Helston
Ann wife 37 b. Camborne
Sarah E dau 1 b. Camborne
Arthur R son 2 weeks b. Camborne

which leads to this baptism

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1745960

Anne was baptised 12/12/1824, not born that day
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1476430

Where did you get the surname of Elizabeth, Jasper's wife? She looks more likely to be Tucker
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~camborneopc/marriage1813.htm

aaah!, Elizabeth Briant is wife of another Jasper & not the mother of Anne
http://v1.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=849933&dbtype=marriages&formval=

1841 College St, Camborn HO107/141/1 folio 16 pg 35
Jasper Edwards 50 copper miner
John 20 copper miner
Jane 15 milliner
Ann 15 milliner
Mary 12
Jasper 8
all born in county, ages in 1841 were rounded down to nearest 5

1851 College St, Camborne HO107/1916 folio 16 pg 25
Elizabeth Edwards head widow 57? miner's & sexton's widow b. Camborne
Ann dau 26 b. Camborne
Jasper son 18 tinplate worker b. Camborne
James Rough lodger 24 copper miner b. Phillack
Mary lodger's wife 22 b. Camborne
Elizabeth lodger's dau 2 b. Camborne
Thomas lodger's son 6 months b. Camborne
Thomas Gill lodger 25 tailor b. Helston
 
Mary is another sister
http://v1.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=850332&dbtype=marriages&formval=

baptism of another brother
http://v1.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=1475240&dbtype=baptisms&formval=

possible baptism for Jasper senior
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1638915

Don't worry about maths, census & parish records are a lot more useful!

 ;)
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Cambourne: Gill & Uren; Gill & Trewin; Gill & Edwards; Edwards & Briant
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 12:52 BST (UK) »
just checked the baptism of Thomas on the scan of the parish records at Familysearch, and the mother's name is given as Mary, but the most likely marriage has Sarah which at least ties in with name of his daughter

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11838-118998-34?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-JC3:n95330153

possible burial for Richard with cause of death as asiatic cholera

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11838-112702-64?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-JH2:1453602242

possible baptism in Wendron for Richard
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1340875

and for the marriage witness, Thomas
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1407095
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline trestrail

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Re: Cambourne: Gill & Uren; Gill & Trewin; Gill & Edwards; Edwards & Briant
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 19:08 BST (UK) »
I am so thrilled to get myself back on the right avenue.  I was doing pretty good with what I had from family records but then when everyone started having the same gosh darn names at around the same time frame,  I got lost on a road parallel to the one I was supposed to be taking. So close but so far down the beaten path of my family history. 

Intuition plays some roll in doing ancestry work, and I'll share what I did.  I found a site from  Cambourne with a list of every single name documented form 1537 - 1800.  I was looking to see when Gill and Uren started showing up.  My eyeballs started aching, but I kept going.  Before I found any of the Gill & Uren names, I saw JASPER EDWARD from 1762 and paused, then wrote it down as the first name out of 36 names I'd list.  Why?  Because my great grandfather was Charles Jasper Gill and the name Jasper was unusual, to me. It turned out to be right.  Blimey. I was to find out that Edward was a family surname. 

UREN first appeared in Cambourne (from this list) in 1763 - Robert Uren son of Richard Nov. 20th.

GILL first appeared in Cambourne in 1808 - Mary Gill daughter of Richard and Catherine. April 11th. 

After I spent 3 hours doing this, I asked myself what was the point?  Get a life!!  :-)  But it was significant in that I discovered one thing - they didn't start acknowledging the husband AND wife's name until 1774.

And by doing this, I was now able to tell my 82 aunt who lives in my town in New York - a Cornish woman who was born Barbara Helen Gill at St. Michael's Mount in June 17 1930, that  we were not always from Cambourne, as she would like to believe we were. It's easier that way to say the Gills from Cambourne, but we are the Gills from Cambourne and Helston and who else knows were? 

I had intuitions about things like Helston being one of the towns we came from.  I was so attracted to Helston when I was in Cornwall in 1990.  I've been studying the history of Cornwall and that the cholera hit many homes killing everyone in families.  I wondered if it had affected someone in my family.....and I did research on the epidemics of Cornwall just 2 nights, ago, and printed it out. 

And OSPREY discovered that it did.

Today, I received such wonderful information from OSPREY , again, helping me in so many ways to find my true relatives, to place them in a family tree, and to honor them.     

Thank you so much.  I'm almost speechless.  You helped me find out WHERE my great great garndfather got his middle name from.  HOCKING.  This is significant. 

I believe I'm doing a less than stellar job keeping notes on my trail of discovery.  If this computer should crash, I'd be devastated so I'm keeping a folder with most of it, but not all.  I think I've got so much to correct, edit, and organize, I should stop for a little while over the next few weeks and get this cleaned up, and backed up. 

My 3.4 version of Family Tree is antiquated and will not allow me to upgrade or access ancestry.com.  My goal is to share this with everyone. I've got so much information on it and cannot import or export.  It's time to find another service like paying Family Tree for an upgraded software and then sharing it.  That is a LOT of re-doing what I've spent all winter doing. But why keep it for myself? 
 
Thank you OSPREY so much for your brilliant assistance.  I'm THRILLED at the documents.

Now I know that we are from Helston and that asiatic colera did take my great great great grandfather's life.  <3 <3 <3 Linda
Trestrail  - My maiden name -  My Father's side from Hayle
Knight -
Tremlett
Hosking
Powning
Freethy
Matthews
Jenkin
Woolcock
Crocker
Robertson
Holman
Hichens
Badge
Goldsack
Curtis
Uren  - My Mother's side from Cambourne/Gwinear/Wendron/Helston
Gill
Penpraze
Trewin
Hendra
Secombe
Symonds
Edwards
Hocking


Offline trestrail

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Gill in Wendron & Helston 1700's
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 11 April 12 03:44 BST (UK) »
I don't see how I can go back any farther now.

And with all the right leads, documents I should rest on it for a while.

I have my lineage of Gills as such starting with my grandfather:

Horace Gill Cambourne b. Oct. 1896 Cambourne
married Ellis Island June 8, 1922
Elizabeth Mary Rubina Uren b. Aug. 7 1896 Cambourne
~~~
Charles Jasper Gill b. 1867 Cambourne
married June 1882
Alice Maude M. Trewin b. 1867 Cambourne
~~~
Thomas Hocking Gill  b. 1827 Helston 
married Dec. 12 1859
Ann Edwards b. 1824 
~~~
Richard Gill b. 1799
married August 25, 1825
Sarah Hocking b. ??
~~~
Francis Gill b. ??? 1765 possibly  Wendron
married July 22, 1791 ??? possibly
Elizabeth ??? Roberts possibly

Francis Gill possible death  July 16, 1830  age 65.  Wendron

It think that this is so fantastic that I even came this far thanks to the help of Osprey

It's my 62 birthday on April 11th so I think I'm signing off and getting a good night's sleep.  It's 10:45 PM in NY. 

Linda
Trestrail  - My maiden name -  My Father's side from Hayle
Knight -
Tremlett
Hosking
Powning
Freethy
Matthews
Jenkin
Woolcock
Crocker
Robertson
Holman
Hichens
Badge
Goldsack
Curtis
Uren  - My Mother's side from Cambourne/Gwinear/Wendron/Helston
Gill
Penpraze
Trewin
Hendra
Secombe
Symonds
Edwards
Hocking

Offline trestrail

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Re: Cambourne: Gill & Uren; Gill & Trewin; Gill & Edwards; Edwards & Briant
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 11 April 12 03:47 BST (UK) »
When I came across pages and pages of ELizabeth Roberts I was shocked.

I cannot do anymore at this time.  I am not even sure that Elizabeth Roberts married Francis Gill in 1791 in Wendron.  I know the Gills were from Wendron and that Francis Gill is the next in line but can't verify any more at this time.

Trestrail  - My maiden name -  My Father's side from Hayle
Knight -
Tremlett
Hosking
Powning
Freethy
Matthews
Jenkin
Woolcock
Crocker
Robertson
Holman
Hichens
Badge
Goldsack
Curtis
Uren  - My Mother's side from Cambourne/Gwinear/Wendron/Helston
Gill
Penpraze
Trewin
Hendra
Secombe
Symonds
Edwards
Hocking

Offline osprey

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Re: Cambourne: Gill & Uren; Gill & Trewin; Gill & Edwards; Edwards & Briant
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 11 April 12 13:35 BST (UK) »
don't give up so soon. Try looking at the whole family group rather than concentrating on just your direct line. Build up a picture of each generation and then you can be more sure as you work backwards.

Don't know why you aren't sure about the 1791 marriage, it definitely took place - scan of parish register

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12875-54096-51?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-K4R:323825656

One witness is Henry Roberts, and Francis witnessed Henry's marriage in Camborne the following year, Henry noted as of Wendron. There weren't that many Francis Gills around, so this 1765 baptism looks ok
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1291764
Richard Gill is a more common name, though.

Given that Elizabeth & Francis had a daughter called Joan baptised in 1795, this looks like them in 1841

Trusall, Wendron HO107/139/4 folio 41 pg 4
Elizabeth Gill 70 widow
Joan 40 ag lab
both born in county
making Elizabeth between 70 & 75 & this burial record looks to be a match
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12875-52650-59?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-K4G:1455659465
Her death cert should confirm name of husband
Elizabeth Gill june qtr 1845 Helston vol 9 pg 93

to be continued...
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Cambourne: Gill & Uren; Gill & Trewin; Gill & Edwards; Edwards & Briant
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 11 April 12 14:23 BST (UK) »
on to Sarah Hocking.

I'm pretty sure she remarried after the death of Richard
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=299128

I've had a look at the scan of the register, the witness name is very difficult to make out. Baptism to the couple
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1747272
think the middle name should be Theophilus

Don't know where Sarah is as yet, but here's Thomas
1841 Lower Green, Helston HO107/139/7 folio 39 pg 25
John George 30 gas labourer
Thomas Gill 15 tailor apprentice

so this could be her burial
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=453029

giving a date of birth of around 1804 which leads to 2 possible baptisms
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1743817
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1743898
the second one would have probably made her under 21 at marriage, and this wasn't shown on her marriage

This could be Sarah in 1841
Herland, Breage HO107/136/4 folio 9 pg 11
Robert Symons 85 ind
Jane Symons 59
Sarah George 35
John George 5
Thomas Lakeman 25 dissenting minister
all born in county

I'd love to say that Jane Symons is Sarah's mother remarried, but I haven't found the evidence for that as yet.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline trestrail

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Re: Cambourne: Gill & Uren; Gill & Trewin; Gill & Edwards; Edwards & Briant
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 11 April 12 17:13 BST (UK) »
Dear Osprey

WOW.   Today is my 62nd birthday and instead of going somewhere or making myself a nice hot meal (its raining and damp and raw here on Long Island & the heat is off in my 82 year old house) I'm sitting here in the colder part of the house on the computer just a gasp at what you've sent. 

I am now living in the Victorian ages as though I'm reading a Cornish novel about the lives of these families, and then it hits me that they are my relatives,and the emotional element gets stirred up inside.  I'm riveted to all of their stories, and it's almost too much to sort out in my mind without drawing on pages and pages of scribble notes with boxes connecting them to each other.  With your help I've traced 6 male generations of GILLS from my grandfather, Horace H. Gill to Charles Jasper Gill  to Thomas Hocking Gill to Richard Gill (cholera) to Francis Gill to his father Richard Gill. 

I wish I could include in my budget a membership to Ancestry.com as I see they have so many links to other online members, but it's not in my budget, right now. 

As to Sarah Hocking Gill George, it looks like she left her son, Thomas Hocking Gill with her second husband in Helston, and moved to Breage to live with a grandfather, mother and 5 year old son, John George. 

Don't you wish they could talk to us from afar and tell us their stories?  This is where imagination and personal visualization in our minds comes in.  I've even been studying up on cholera since learning Richard Gill died from it at such a young age.

How can I definitely find out what happened to Sarah?  She died at 42?  So young.  Lost a husband who was only 34, remarried, had a son at age 30 by her second husband, and then died when her son John George was only 12.   Even though he is not a direct blood relative, I'm going to see if I can find John George who was born in 1836 in the census.  Did he go back with his father, John George in Helston after his Mother's death?  His grandfather Francis had already died in 1830, His father died in 1833, his mother died in 1845 was he was 9.  And what about Thomas?  He was 19 when his Mother died.  He didn't marry until 14 years later in 1859 to Sarah Hocking so where did he live?  He was a tailor all his life, I think. 

And then there is Elizabeth Gill married to Francis in 1791.  Did they only have two children?  Richard and Joan?  And why is Joan living with her Mother at age 40?  Is she disabled or impaired or just a spinster?  Francis died at age 65 in 1830, and Elizabeth was still alive at age 70 on the 1841 census.  So what happened to Joan??

I am going to look and see if I can find better literature on the period in 1845 in Helston, Breage, Wendron regarding the epidemics in Cornwall.

Hugs and a big Mmmmwah for all you have researched for me.  I understand how time consuming this all is so your efforts are much appreciated.

Linda Trestrail
Long Island   



   
Trestrail  - My maiden name -  My Father's side from Hayle
Knight -
Tremlett
Hosking
Powning
Freethy
Matthews
Jenkin
Woolcock
Crocker
Robertson
Holman
Hichens
Badge
Goldsack
Curtis
Uren  - My Mother's side from Cambourne/Gwinear/Wendron/Helston
Gill
Penpraze
Trewin
Hendra
Secombe
Symonds
Edwards
Hocking