Author Topic: what does this document mean?  (Read 4237 times)

Offline Gone

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
what does this document mean?
« on: Friday 13 April 12 20:42 BST (UK) »
Googling my 2x g grandfather under his alias i've found a reference to documents at the NA.
I,m not 100% sure of its meaning so could someone please explain.

Draft Conveyance
1. Luke Holmes of Runcorn, Co Chester,
Auctioneer

2. Hugh Hughs of Pant Iddan, Sychnant,
Pa Dwygyfylchi, Settmaker

Re Tan-Y-Nant, Sychnant, Pa Dwygyfylchi.

Consideration: £67.10s.

Is Luke selling the property to Hugh or is Luke buying?
Luke Holmes was hiding from something and this might be a clue to where he was
thanks, Griff

Offline Billyblue

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,066
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 14 April 12 11:00 BST (UK) »
If Luke was an auctioneer, can we suppose he was selling the property on behalf of another?

Not sure what a Draft Convenance is ??? ??? ???
But someone else is sure to know

Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)

Offline Gone

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 April 12 11:59 BST (UK) »
Thank you Dawn. I had no idea what sort of auctioneer Luke was, propery, general goods, livestock.
His earlier life as Luke Hulme had him doing all sorts, silk worker, collier, earthenware dealer etc but new info has come to light that has pointed me in the direction of property. I bet he dealt in whatever he could get his hands on though :-)
First mention of hin being an auctioneer was on his son's marriage cert 1886
griff

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 April 12 12:25 BST (UK) »
Hi

I wonder if Draft Conveyence is similar today's Letter of Intent ... Draft being something like a Proforma and Conveyence like a written agreement to Exchange property (eg Real Estate) OR alternatively so perhaps a written Promise to sell something for a Bank draft of a certain amount ofmoney ...  Of course I am speculating .... probably way off on a tangent ... sorry.

Cheers JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.


Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,198
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 April 12 12:44 BST (UK) »
Sorry to butt in here as I can't help with interpreting your document.

You imply that Luke's surnames were Hulme and Holmes. Are you sure Holmes is an alias? May it not be simply a misspelling or misinterpretation or variation of the same surname?.

I would think the surnames are pronounced the same way and just spelled differently and Holmes simply has the additon of a 's' on the document, which may be due to whover wrote the surname and not Luke himself purposely using a different name.

Just a thought ...  :)

Offline Gone

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 14 April 12 12:48 BST (UK) »
hi jm. thats a possibility, i've found out so much about luke over the last few days and now i know i can obtain his will too. now that should be fascinating  :o
griff

Offline Gone

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 14 April 12 12:56 BST (UK) »
hello ruskie,
yes it was a definate change as he very rarely used hulme when in runcorn, his 3 children were all registered as hulme in the 1890's but all christened holmes and carried on using that variation. he died as holmes too. he changed his date of birth too from 1837 to 1847 and his place of birth from biddulph, staffs to budworth, cheshire, 1891 census.
his brother also living in runcorn 1881 census put his place of birth as biddleworth so there was something going on for sure
griff

Offline JenB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,879
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 14 April 12 14:12 BST (UK) »
A draft Conveyance was a preliminary conveyance, drawn up before exchange of contracts. It would be drawn up by the vendor's solicitor and sent to the purchaser's solicitor. The latter could comment on it and suggest changes etc., then return it to the vendor's solicitor.

A conveyance might go through several draft stages before the final form was agreed upon, especially if it was a complex document.

In the usual format the vendor's name would come first, so Luke Holmes was the vendor and Hugh Hughes was the purchaser.

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gone

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: what does this document mean?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 14 April 12 19:59 BST (UK) »
thank you jen b. i was on the right lines but thank you for clearing that up
griff