NEWMAN Lots missing from 1891 census

[adj]

Hi,

I'm trying to find some Newmans in the 1891 census.  I've got Richard Lawrence/Laurence Newman and his wife Caroline for most of the earlier censuses, including the 1851 census which shows RLN with his first wife, Mary Ann Bartlett.  By 1891, all his children with Caroline Cox are unaccounted for in the UK except for the youngest Richard Newman (he had two sons with the same name, his first with his first wife, Mary Ann Bartlett) who by 1891 is in military barracks.  I do know that two of his older sons, William and George had left for Australia by then.

I'm fairly sure both Richard and Caroline died after the 1891 census, so they should exist.  William and Jessie Ragg moved to Australia in 1877, and George and Mary Ann Hannah Bliss followed there in 1883.  I also know Julia moved to Australia, as she married John Henry Sedergreen in Victoria in 1901, but I've not yet been able to find her arrival in the country, or who she travelled with.  I thought it might be possible that she went out there with one of her brothers, or her parents, or with John Henry himself, but I've not found anything to confirm this.  I've also not yet been able to account for the movements of their sisters, Alice, Caroline, from 1881 onwards.  They either died young or were not living at home by this time.  They would have been about 14 and 11, in 1881.  After that they may have travelled.

Given the problems I had with transcription on one site for 1861, it is possible that they are still in the UK in 1891, but recorded under different names, so I would appreciate some help!

[CaroleW]

Hi

Can you include details of birthyears and birthplaces for all the people you are trying to find

freebmd has a death in Epsom in 1897 for Richard - age 66

[adj]

Hi, this is a selection of dates and info I have on the family.  I have found them in most censuses until 1881 and 1891, by which time some have gone to Australia and others are unaccounted for.

Richard Lawrence/Laurence Newman, b. ~1823, Goswell Road, Clerkenwell, London, Christened 5 Jun 1825 , Bermondsey, m. Mary Ann Bartlett, 2 Nov 1846, Newington St Mary, m. Caroline Cox, 30 Sep 1854, Hackney St John, d. 1897, Epsom, Surrey.

Caroline Cox, b. ~1834, Crondall, Hampshire, m. Richard L Newman 1854, d 1892, St Pancras, London.

William Henry Newman, b. 1 Oct 1855, Hackney, London, m. Jessie Evangeline Ragg, 22 Feb 1877, arrived Sydney, NSW, Australia 15 Nov 1877, d. 1932 Perth, WA, Australia.

George Newman, b ~1857, Hackney, London, m. Mary Ann Hannah Bliss 1 Oct 1876, Gillingham, Kent, arrived Sydney, NSW, Australia 19 May 1883, d. 1932 Australia?

Alice Newman b. ~1867, Camberwell

Caroline Newman b. ~1870, Camberwell

Julia Rosa Newman b. ~1872, Camberwell, m. John Henry Sedergreen 1901, Victoria, Australia, residing in Perth, WA, Australia, 1903, returned to England on 11 Feb 1908.

[keyboard86]

Hi I would suggest look ups on Freebmd, as this is the most likely site to help locate possible deaths/marriages etc, these look to be a possible deaths for Caroline and Alice

Death Caroline Newman Dec qtr 1871 Camberwell v1d page 493 aged 2
Death Alice Newman Dec qtr 1872 Camberwell v1d page 399 aged 6

Keyboard86

[adj]

Ah thanks for those, I'm sure I saw them previously thinking about it, but I'd not noted them in the tree at the time.

That just leaves the whereabouts of Richard Lawrence/Laurence Newman and his wife, Caroline Cox, and their daughter Julia Rosa Newman.  I know the daughter was in Australia by 1901, but perhaps she'd left earlier, perhaps they were all out in Australia visiting the elder brothers when the 1891 census was taken.

[censusmick]

Census information is Crown copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Source of any Baptisms and Marriages is acknowledged as being from the I.G.I. ( L.D.S Church )
Source of any G.R.O .information is acknowledged as being from the FREEBMD web-site ( Long may they transcribe )
 
Dear adj

Just on one of those strange hunches we all have, I looked back to find Richard L's address in 1881, ie 3 Nelson Square.
He IS still there in 1891, there was another family also at the same address, which is not un-common.

On three of the Census sites indexes he did not show up, possibly because it looked ( to me ) like Newma ? on the image.

The Film is 480 Folio 56 Page 2 :

Richard L ( Newman ) 67 Widower - a Cooper  - b. St John Clerkenwell
No other people with him in his 'part' of the house.

His trade of Cooper is the same from all the Censii of 1841 to 1891

The other family sharing the house were Joseph & Alice Seel ? - 50 / 47 + kids.
This Alice was born Northampton ? - so not one of Richard L's kids.

This throws into confusion Carolines death in the Pancras Reg Dist.
Do you have the certificate to confirm this one or is it a 'guesstimation', of which I am guilty of a lot of times !!!

The Caroline in 'my holdings' is assumed as the Widow of a Henry Newman.

A possible, better 'fit', is Caroline Newman - Death  1891-Q1 Camberwell RD  age 54  CBY 1837 ?

It may be worth the 'investment' of a certificate to verify this - unless some-one else out there has the information ?

Cheers      Mick  ( a small, worn down, cog in the Newman Name Society - I get brownie points for that plug !!! )

[adj]

Ah, that explains a lot! Thank you! This makes things much clearer, I think.  It explains that Caroline had died earlier than I had been lead to believe, and confirms that Julia Rosa had indeed left the house before 1891.  I believe someone else has the arrival date of Julia in Australia, so that should complete the missing details I was struggling with.