Surname Pirtle

[stockton]

  Hi MargP, if that is same family then why would Margaret Murphy be shown as born 1863 Coxhoe, Durham, when we have her born 1861 Middlesbrough, dont know if you know or not but Coxhoe and Stockton on Tees same county then, i wish i could say for definite but we know Margaret Murphy first shown as born Middlesbrough, the irish connection that i first refered to was man telling us she Margaret born Dublin, dont believe my mother would have gotten some thing about her beloved granny McIntosh so wrong, but i cant argue with all facts at the moment saying she was born Middlesbrough

Would love this Michael &  Jane to be the parents but  its the Coxhoe birth.
All the best Derek

[MargP]

Hi Stockton

Can you tell me the source of where Margaret's birth date comes from, I have posted the following census, so that you can see the variation of the information from one census to another, and this can not be relied on as being definite.

1861 Census

Michael Morphey b 1821 Ireland
Jane Morphey b 1832 Hull Yorkshire
William Morphey b 1850 Hull



1871 Census

Michael Murphy b 1841 Ireland
Jane Murphy b 1841 Ireland
Margaret Murphy b 1863 she is born in Leasington on this census
Mary Murphy b 1868 Leasington
John Murphy b 1869 Leasington

1881 Census

Michael Murphy b 1833 Ireland
Jane Murphy b 1831 Ireland
Margaret Murphy b 1863 Coxhoe
Mary Murphy b 1867 Leasinghouse
John Murphy b 1869 Lottingham
Jane Ann b 1871 Leasinghouse

1891 Census

Micheal Murphy b 1836 Ireland
Jane Murphy b 1832
John Murphy b 1869 Spennymore
Jane Ann b 1871 Spennymore

Margp

[heywood]

Hi Margp,

I think this family seem a very good match to Derek's family but it is the  Middlesborough and Dublin connections which have troubled us.
However, as we know, people didn't always give the right place of birth.
The best thing would be to get Michael and Jane's marriage certificate to match with the couple you have.
I didn't think they were because of place but you never know!

heywood 

[MargP]

Hi Heywood

I am not sure if this relevant or not, but am throwing it in the mix, because Stockton mentioned a Casey connection

1861 Census

Michael Morphey b 1821 Ireland
Jane Morphey b 1832 Hull Yorkshire
William Morphey b 1850 Hull

Next door

Jude Casey b 1801 Ireland
Coleman Casey b 1847 Ireland
Patrick Casey b Ireland

Margp and thanks Heywood for your help

[MargP]

Hi Heywood

Do you know if Derek's got the marriage cert for Margaret Murphy

Marg

[heywood]

Derek got the parents names from the Little Sisters Home- Michael Murphy and Jane Pirtle.
Re the marriage cert. it was from parish records and just gave the name of her father as Michael.

I think that is right 

[stockton]

  MargP thanks so much again for time and effort spent on my maternal great grandparents family, its very kind of you.
Heywood thank you for jumping in there i was completely out of my Depth with dates and place's, was begining to get hot n bothered trying to give MargP the right answers after so much time and effort spent on me.
Iv'e writen off to Pateley Bridge and Ripon asking where a catholic would have married in 1860 Pateley Bridge, thier dont seem to be any catholic churche's in Pateley are, also asked about any records on a marriage of Michael Murphy & Jane Portill, got my fingers crossed, been amazed just lately from folks who you would never ecpect a reply from to get back with important family information.
Thank you isn't a big enough words at times but thank you all again
MargP the Casey's you mentioned Francis was the only christian name thats used over and over in my Casey family Derek

[MargP]

Derek got the parents names from the Little Sisters Home- Michael Murphy and Jane Pirtle.
Re the marriage cert. it was from parish records and just gave the name of her father as Michael.

I think that is right 

Hi Heywood, did it say what Michael's occupation was on the marriage record and any witnesses

[heywood]

No because it was sent by a diocesan archivist in response to a query so just had names.

I think you have really opened the door here, Margp and the best thing now is for Derek to get the relevant certificates and hopefully match them up.

Daisy posted the censuses for Margaret:

1891 RG12/4049  f.58  p.21    Stockton on Tees,  Durham
Margaret MACINTOSH    age: 26    born: Middlesbrough
1901  RG13/4626  f.108  p.2    Stockton on Tees,  Durham
Margaret MCINTOSH    age: 37    born: Middlesbrough
Stockton on Tees, Durham
Margaret MCINTOSH    age: 49    born:  Middlesbrough

Then she found:
1881  RG11/4895  f.24  p.42  Stockton, Durham
Cherry Lane
Margaret MURPHY    Lodger    Unm    17    Domestic Servant    Yorks Middlesbrough

We had been considering:
RG11/4862/21/ 33

Margaret Murphy 16 yrs born Dublin -servant in Thornaby on Tees (Middlesborough district)
because of the family Dublin stories.

That is why the Coxhoe birthplace didn't fit. However other things do now.
So really it is the 1863 birth for a Margaret in Stockton and the Murphy/Portal marriage I think.

I have spoken to Derek and I do have his permission to reply here.

regards and thanks
heywood