Restrictions on viewing images at LDS site Family Search

[Josephine]

I did sign up on their website and, as you say, it did not grant me access to those records online.

P.S. I'm a member of the LDS, but I'm NOT a Mormon (or anything else, for that matter).

I'm not an expert on the subject, but the LDS church does not allow non-Mormons to be members of their church. Sure, you can make an account on FamilySearch, but this will not give you access to any additional records such as the Kent registers and certainly does not make you a member of the LDS.

[Erato]

OK, here's your answer which I found in the help section:

https://www.familysearch.org/help/viewdocument?documentId=113718&sliceId=SAL_Public&userQuery=supporting+organization

There is an address where you can ask for further information.

[andycand]

Hi

It's not that it's not free. It's that only Mormons are permitted to view certain records on the LDS website (not just the Strood records) and these records pertain to Anglicans. (Other records on the LDS website may be viewed online by anyone including non-Mormons.) My question, born out of disappointment and curiousity, was why that was so. It strikes me as more than a little odd.

The LDS do not have the ultimate say in who can view images of Parish Registers online, the copyright holder of the images, the Church of England in this case, has that say. What we are talking about here is the images of the registers and not the data contained. On at least a couple of occasions the LDS has uploaded images of registers and then had to remove them. Cheshire is one instance but I must admit this is the first time I have seen a case of limited access to the images.

The original agreements between the LDS and the Churches/Archives allowed the general public access to the films through Family History Centres so maybe the wording is such that the LDS believe that they can also put the images online at the Family History Centres without requiring further permission from the copyright holders. If this is the way the LDS are going then that will be good for people who use the FHCs as it means that instead of ordering a film, paying and waiting for it to be delivered, you can just go in and look online.

Andy

[Guy Etchells]

Guy-


Are you sure??

I cannot see how copyright conventions can apply to parish records- they are not creative works, and do not have authors. Copyright does not apply to data sets or information in itself. And PRs are public records, what makes you think they are not? An incumbant making a few bob on them is irrelevent- that was his fee for keeping the record- just like a registrar's salary. The Parish acted as the collector of records required  by statute, by the courts etc.and could be looked at and COPIED on demand.

Is this not right??
Sally

Yes I am sure as are the legal advice I have taken on this subject, though it has not been tested in court.

Prior to the 18th century copyright existed at common law, i.e. there was no statute or Act of parliament that provided for copyright it was a right gained by custom and use.
The Statute of Anne (1710) granted copyright to publishers (not authors) for a term of 14 years.
This initial Copyright Act was over centuries developed to include authors and extended to what is covered today.
Database Right was introducted to copyright in 1997.
This gives copyright to data and includes sweat of the brow as well as originality, something which is often claimed is not included in copyright. Under UK and European law it now is.

Parish Registers unlike Civil Registers are not Public Records they do not come under the remit of the various Public Records Acts unlike Civil Registers.
They are the records of the Church of England and dealt with under seperate legislation, it could however be argued that the civil records kept during the civil war and Commonweath periods are included as public records.

The fact that members of the public are allowed to take a copy of an entry in a parish register (since 1644) does not mean they are allowed to copy parish registers.

The incumbent is due a fee for searches and certified copies of entries in his/her parish registers whether he/she holds the registers of not (i.e. those registers held at the Dioscean Archive). It is not recompense for copying the entry.
Before any parish register is copied permission has to be obtained from the current incumbent.

The Parochial Registers and Records Measure, 1929 states it this way.-

"(3) For removing doubts it is hereby declared that subject to the provisions of this Measure the title to or right to the possession of register books of baptisms, marriages or burials in the lawful power and custody of a minister or of a minister and churchwardens is incap­able of assignment whether for value or otherwise."

Cheers
Guy

[BumbleB]

But there are some parish register images to be viewed on-line via the Family Search website - I've just been looking at the images for marriages in Lancashire and Yorkshire, in the comfort of my own home.

Surely that means that only some of the records have been uploaded in this format!!  In the same way that not all parish registers for a county have been uploaded to Ancestry.

We had a talk recently from a member of LDS Library and she said that they are adding records, of one kind or another, every day.

Modified:  And they still don't acknowledge burials, so still only a finding aid, and partial at that 

[Nick29]

I did sign up on their website and, as you say, it did not grant me access to those records online.

I don't think I ever claimed that it would.   I merely claimed that non-Mormons could sign up on the LDS Family Search site, which is true.