COMPLETED Lamberton toll marriages

[geoffreyhyoung]

Can anyone help please? I have a presbyterian ancestor from the Berwick area who I am stuck on. Robert Young was living at East Ord in the census's for Northumberland with his wife Ann. They both appear to have been born in the mid 1790s but I cannot find their birth or marriage. I have found baptism of some of their children at Spittal presbyterian but nothing about them.
I understand that Presbyterian marriages were held at Lamberton toll in the Berwick area and wondered if anyone has access to the records and could look to see if their marriage is recorded. I would imagine it would be around the mid 1810s as his first child seems to have been born in 1819. Any help would be gratefully received!

[c-side]

It wasn't just Presbyterians who married there - Lamberton Toll (and Coldstream Bridge) were the east coast equivalent to Gretna Green.

Presbyterians used them (or travelled into Scotland) to avoid the legal requirement in England to marry in the Church of England.

Unfortunately records do not survive though there are some newspaper announcements which are held by Northumberland Archives.

Christine

[terianne]

As lamberton toll is in Berwickshire Scotland, might be a idea to search the berwickshire records for the marriage - not everyone how married there has eloped over the borders form England.  If they were ag lab it could have been for work, etc.

As Young is a local old gypsie name try the neighbouring county Roxburghshire too, especially around Yetholm area. 

Also just a hunce but Ann 's maiden name Hay - check the middle name of their children especially an elder son

[geoffreyhyoung]

Thanks for your interesting comments. Robert is recorded as being an agricultural labourer in the census returns so I will have a look.

[trish1120]

Trees dont seem to have the 1841 and it look like Robert was away from Home;
(you may have this though)

1841 Census
East Ord,
Tweedmouth, Durham
HO107/318/10/Tweedmouth
Ann YOUNG, 45, Fishermans Wife? (crossed through)
Andrew, 15, Iron Founders Apprentice
Margaret, 15
Roger, 12
Ann, 9
Sarah, 3

If you can find the Birth Reg of Sarah and purchase the Cert it will have her Mothers maiden name.

Jane Douglas Young 1819 and Roger Hay Young 1829 might point to Anns maiden name.
But then again it may be either Roberts/Anns Mothers maiden names also.

Trish

[trish1120]

There are 2 possible Marriages on Familysearch.Org;
Robert YOUNG;
13 Sept 1818, Christchurch, Tynemouth, Northumberland to Ann CANLISH
25 November 1818, Same details, to Ann MORTON

[terianne]

With regards to middle name there is a general rule in the Scotland and North of England the mother Maiden/father surname is generally given the a son and the mother or father's mother's maiden name to a daugther.

so it might to worth checking out for example Roger Hay and Jane Douglas or Robert Young and Jane Douglas.

Also I had look at the IGI and there could have been two sons called Robert one born 1813  born Birdhope Craig Northumberland and another later, worth a look

Also Robert Young (1795) and Ann (1794) were still alive in 1881

[Helen K]

Hi geoffreyhyoung

I also have an interest in this YOUNG family, though not much further forward (or backward!) as yourself.

My connection is through son Andrew.

Andrew's marriage was recorded in the Berwick Advertiser as follows:

Date of newspaper       3 Jan 1852
Place of Marriage          Lamberton Toll
Date of Marriage           31st ult
Mr Andrew YOUNG of East Ord to Jane, 4th dtr of Adam BELL, of East Ord


Daughter Margaret's marriage is also recorded as follows:

Date of Newspaper      12 Dec 1846
Place of Marriage          Lamberton Toll
Date of Marriage           4th inst
John WILLIAMSON, iron founder, of Tweedmouth to Margaret, 2nd dtr of Mr Robert YOUNG of East Ord

There is no record of a marriage for Robert YOUNG and Ann in the Irregular Border Marriages Volume II.

The 1861 Census for East Ord has Andrew's wife Jane and their 3 children visiting Robert YOUNG and Ann.

I've not been able to trace any children as yet before son Andrew, but from Margaret's marriage entry there appears to have been at least an older daughter.

Robert names Scremerston as his birthplace on 3 Census entries, but I've not had a chance to look into this in depth.

Regards

Helen K

[geoffreyhyoung]

A huge thanks to the three of you for your comments and obsevations and they are greatly appreciated as they help me to understand the complex problems of non conformist border ancestors!
trish I have looked at the Tynemouth marriages and it was in that area that his son Andrew ended up as well as his grandchildrens birth. i have always assumed this was purely work related but maybe there was some family connection in the area? Also Noted is Roberts absence in the 1841 census as is Andrews birth so maybe there is family over the border?
terianne I have been looking at possible middle name connections for Annes maiden name but grandmothers maiden name is interesting. Hadnt thought of that. i did notice a Jane Douglas baptised at Spittal fairly close to Jane so maybe a connection there?
Helen K the fact that at least two children of Robert were married at Lamberton possibly indicates that he was also probably also married there. I understand that there are records up to 1816 for marriages there but i think that they were probably married around 1818. There is a daughter recorded as baptised at spittal in 1819 named Jane Douglas but as there is a Douglas baptised immediately before in the register the Douglas may be a mistake? Also no record of Andrew or Roberts birth so maybe in Scotland?