Elizabeth Jenkins & John Herbert marriage and death mystery

[lazydaisy]

I have today received a copy of a marriage cert for John Herbert age 42 bachelor & Elizabeth Jenkins age 38 spinster. These ones married in the Parish Church of Gelligaer on 2 September 1867. Both were living in Pontlottyn at the time.

As the children of my John Herbert & Elizabeth Jenkins were born in Pontlottyn ( Elizabeth Herbert 1861 and Martha Ann Herbert 1865) - it is likely this marriage cert belongs to my John & Elizabeth.
The cert records that John's father was a shepherd - deceased & Elizabeth's father was a sailor - deceased.

The witnesses to the marriage were William Davies & Stephen Jenkins. So, some more lines of enquiry open up!

I am currently awaiting a copy of the marriage cert for Martha Gronow (who may possibly be a sister of Elizabeth Jenkins) & George Symonds. Will post again when I receive it.

In the meantime a big thank you to Hazel17 for finding the Herbert/jenkins marriage in 1867 & to Wilcoxon for all his help along the way

Regards

Diane
 

[wilcoxon]

Are the fathers named ?

I don`t know if this is linked.
1861 Vessels Pembrokeshire.
Stephen Jenkins marr 35 mate b  Dinas Pembrokeshire.

1851 Bedwellty  - lodging with a Price family
221 New Colliers Row,
Stephen Jenkins un 25 collier b Dinas

1841 Llanfyrnach Pembrokeshire
Bankyportis No 5
Rachel Jenkin 55 ind , b Y
Stephen Jenkin 15 b Y

OR
1841 Fishguard Pembrokeshire
Dyffyn B
David Davies 15 MS ( male servant ) Y
Stephen Jenkin 15 MS Y

[wilcoxon]

Something else to think about --- maybe ? 

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/Dinas/

ELIZABETH JENKINS 
 Christening:  27 JUL 1828   Fishguard, Pembroke, Wales 
 Father:  DAVID JENKINS    Mother:  RACHEL 

[lazydaisy]

Hi Wilcoxon

Mmmmm ... dont know what to think about this, as the father of Elizabeth on the baptism is david and the one on the marriage cert is Thomas

Thanks for you suggestion

Regards

Diane

[Mabel Bagshawe]

this looks interesting! 1841, address looks something like Ffynnonty, Dinas

Mary Gronow    29
Mary Jenkin    45
Elizth Jenkin    11
Thos Jenkin    8
Jane Jenkin    5

[wilcoxon]

Very interesting  and there is also a Stephen that could be the witness .

Family Search

STEPHEN JINKIN  Christening:  29 JUL 1826   Rhosycaerau Independent, Saint Nicholas, Pembroke, Wales 
  Father:  THOMAS JINKIN    Mother:  MARY.   SUBMITTED ENTRY

ELIZABETH JENKIN  Christening:  12 FEB 1831   Rhosycaerau Independent, Saint Nicholas, Pembroke, Wales  Batch No.:   C086871
  Father:  THOMAS JENKIN  Family
  Mother:  MARY


THOMAS JENKIN  Birth:  14 APR 1833     Batch No C087011
 Christening:  03 JUN 1833   Ebenezer Independent, Newport, Pembroke, Wales 
  Father:  THOMAS JENKIN    Mother:  MARY     

JANE JENKINS Birth:  02 JUL 1835     Batch No.:   C087011
 Christening:  09 AUG 1835   Ebenezer Independent, Newport, Pembroke, Wales 
  Father:  THOMAS JENKINS    Mother:  MARY 

And there`s now this . THIS IS SUBMITTED SO NEEDS TO BE CONFIRMED.
MARY GRONOW   Spouse:  THOMAS JENKINS 
 Marriage:  24 NOV 1824   Dinas, Pembroke, Wales   


 

[baggygenes]

1861 Census
George Symonds age 32 Carpenter born goodrich herefordshire
Martha Symonds age 27 born Trevena, Pembrokeshire
Joseph Symonds age 4 born Merthyr

 Llanover Road, Llanover Upper, Abergavenny Monmouthshire


by 1871 Martha was an Evans   there are about 4 George Symonds (with various spellings) deaths between 61 and 71 but 3 are recorded as children - the only one that seems to fit that I can see (but no age recorded) is
SIMMONDS   George Frederick   Newport M   11a   105
(The district Newport M spans the boundaries of the counties of Glamorgan, Gwent and Monmouthshire)
can't find a marriage to Mr Evans though..
although of course George may not have died and Martha may not have married Mr Evans just took his name
and Martha Jenkins could be related through Gronow, Symonds or Evans - although the Gronow/ Jenkins thing is looking good for you at the mo!

[lazydaisy]

Many thanks to Mabel, Wilcoxon and Baggygenes. You are all so helpful & it is really good of you to take the time to look up and pass on this info. I am now getting spoiled for choice with the possibilities

I ordered the marriage cert for Martha Gronow & George Symonds but had a senior moment & called George ... Joseph - The GRO returned the order (& payment) saying the info did not match the entry. I have now re - ordered it.

Thanks again to you all. I will try and check out the info you have given and see how it all pans out.

Will post again with an update

Regards
Diane

[lazydaisy]

.... and now to throw a big spanner in the works!!

I decided to look for Martha Gronow in the 1841 census & found

Joseph Gronow aged 40 Ag Lab
Martha Jenkins (Jenkins crossed out & 'Do'inserted under Gronow) aged 39
then over the page
William Gronow aged 12
Eliz Jenkins (Jenkins crossed out & 'Do' inserted under Gronow) aged 10 (or possibly 11)
Martha Jenkins ( Jenkins crossed out & 'Do' inserted under Gronow) aged 7
The reference is HO 107/1444/4. The parish is St Davids in Pembrokeshire and the place is Lamin Einon

Well, the permutations and speculations here are endless arent they?

Does anyone have access to parish (bapt, marriage & burial) records for this area?

Am wondering if Martha senior was married before to xxxx Jenkins, then widowed, then got together Joseph Gronow.  That could be why the females of this household are uncertain of their surname... Perhaps Joseph had been widowed & William was the son of Josephs late wife and that why Jenkins wasnt entered and crossed out on his details.

It is also a bit of a coincidence the same surnames of Gronow & Jenkins seem to be intertwined in this family  as they appear to be with my Elizabeth Jenkins & Martha Gronow/Symonds/Evans.

Any further input and suggestions appreciated .

Thanks Diane

(PS realise that 'Do' in above context means ditto)