WWI Intelligence Corps

[Moscatella]

Update on my enquiries -

National Archives have replied, briefly they suggest that I either make a personal visit to make a search, ask a friend to search for me or pay a researcher, either professional or use their own research service. Having said that, the info they sent me says that the MoD would still hold my relative's file if he continued to serve in the Army after 1922 - which I believe is the case here.   So I've now emailed an enquiry to the Army Personal Centre in Glasgow, contact details as follows:

Army Personnel Centre, Historic Disclosures, Mailpoint 400, Kentigern House, 65
Brown Street, Glasgow, G2 8EX, tel: 0141-224-2023 and 0141-224-3303

So watch this space

[forester]

Linda,

What exactly did they send you?

The link I gave you yesterday was to his service file at Kew. There is no "P" number in WO 338 and if there was, the file would not come up on the Catalogue. If he did serve in WW2, it was not continuous service as he relinquished his commission in 1922. The only ambiguity is that the NA entry has him as a Major. So far, along with not being able to track down his OBE, I can't find any other reference to that rank.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32756/pages/7297/page.pdf

Phil

[Moscatella]

This is the body of their reply (I emailed them all the relevant info I have inc his service number). I`ve scoured the London Gazette 1914-1919 using name variations and/or words such as despatches/intelligence corps/honours and awards....zilch apart from the two or three entries links for which are already posted for this topic.

"Thank you for your request for an estimate for the cost of copying records from The National Archives. Our initial examination of your request shows that specific information within this document is not easily identifiable and will require further research.

There are three other ways for you to identify the material you want copied, assuming that it exists:
1. You, or someone acting on your behalf, are welcome to visit us to do the research yourself. Our staff will give you advice free of charge. For visiting details, please go to http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/visit/. The only payment would be if you then wanted to buy copies from our Record Copying Department or use the self-service copying facilities (where available). You can also take photographs of documents using your own digital camera, under certain rules. For details of the options go to http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recordcopying/.
2. You can hire an independent researcher to carry out specific or wider-ranging research for you, both at The National Archives and in other relevant archives. For details, and for a list of independent researchers who conduct research at The National Archives, go to http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/irlist/.
3. You can use our paid search service if you have a specific request, but we cannot undertake wide-ranging research. For further details and for the cost of the service, go to http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/paid-search-service.htm."

They say many files were lost in 1940 and that very few "Mentioned in Despatches" records have survived, so even if someone were to make a personal search for Bertrand's file - unless I am missing something here -  it seems to me there is no way of knowing if there is anything to find.

Phil, I've never used the NA apart from downloading Wills.  Pardon my ignorance, but are you saying that there is likely to be a service file for him that I could order via that link?  If you are experienced with navigating your way round this site I'd appreciate any help you can give.

Linda 

[forester]

Linda,

Go back to my post which is #11 in this thread.

The NA Catalogue reference is WO 339/43793 and if you click on the link I gave, it will take you straight to the Catalogue entry.

That is what I thought would come back with a £180 price tag.

Phil

[Moscatella]

Thank you so much for your help on this Phil, at least I now know they hold his file. 

It`s a shame there is no way of finding out how large the file is, so I could make some kind of judgement on likely cost.  Unfortunately I shall have to put my hunt on hold as getting a copy would be an expensive business.

I very much appreciate the input from everyone on this topic. 

[forester]

Linda,

It is unpredictable what the file will contain. A lot were extensively weeded in the 1930's and then subject to the same fire in WW2 that destroyed the other ranks service files.

Most of the ones I have are for casualties and they vary from just 4 pages to over 100, mainly because there is a lot of family correspondence in them. Normally there is very little military information in an officer's file, unless he served in the ranks before commission.

Phil

[mmm45]

Linda are you a member of the Great War Forum?
Because its "Intelligence Corps" which was in its infancy in WW1 and in fact not a Corps at all but a group of people brought together with their diverse skills under the umberella "Intelligence Corps" then theres the possibility that someone has researched the subject and you MAY get lucky.

If you arent a member and would like me to post a link with a brief outline on there let me know.

I cant find his OBE either have tried Edinburgh Gazette too...Have also seen another OBE to a lad in the "Intellligence Corps" so its possible that he was in a research,listening,decyphering enemy signals role especially with his background in telegraphy.He MAY have had language skills to utilise.

Ady

[Moscatella]

No, I'm not a member of the Great War Forum - this is my first foray into researching anything to do with WWI, so if you'd post that link for me I'd be very grateful. Thanks Ady.

I tried Ednburgh Gazette too and The Times archives, I thought maybe for an obit, but nothing.  Presumably he had some knowledge of French if he was sent there in 1915, but again I have no idea how crucial language skills were at that point of time and place.

And Phil, you've cheered me up a little. The NA's paid search service says "Please tell us exactly what you are looking for before sending any money. We will write back to tell you how much our search for the information will cost. When we receive your payment we will carry out the search and, if we find the information and can make it available, we will provide it to you."

If I understand it correctly, I could ask for the cost of a photocopy of the file so at least I would have an idea of the size if not content, and as they charge 40p per A4 b/w photocopy the overall cost MIGHT not be as much as I feared.

Linda

[corisande]

  I`ve scoured the London Gazette 1914-1919 using name variations and/or words such as despatches/intelligence corps/honours and awards....zilch apart from the two or three entries links for which are already posted for this topic.

That, I am afraid, does not surprise me. I have carried out a lot of research on Intelligence Operation in Ireland post WW1, so have had to glean info on how the British Army handled them.

You will certainly have to get his officer file that has been referred to earlier in this thread, the reason being that many Intelligence posting or awards were deliberately not Gazetted. You will actually find a note on his file saying something like a man being appointed to a Class HH post but there would be added "do not gazette"

For fairly obvious reasons they did not want to alert the Germans to special operations. This does not mean that the entries will have been saved from "weeding" over the years, but there is a fair chance that they are there

The other thing you will find (probably) on his file will be an instruction that the man is to be contacted via Room so and so at the War Office, where all communication to intelligence me were channeled.

My feeling is that you will not make any progress without the file (and the file will not necessarily guarantee success)