Hannah Ann Williams

[aggiebagwash]

So we know that Sarah J was a Williams. Edward was a Jones with father Edward Jones and Rose was fathered by Henry Jones.

I can't find a marriage for Hannah to Edward. It has to be after Sarah J's birth and Edward's birth which narrows the search by date but not by area. With the birth of Edward in Sheffield where was Hannah on the 1871 census? I can't see her under either Williams or Jones.

I'd hang fire with the marriage certificate until we know for sure it's the correct one.

[Zoe-Hannah]

Thankyou, do you think I should order Sarah J' birth entry you found, This side of my tree I'm finding it very hard, It doesn't help that Edward's youngest daughter is still alive, but won't talk about her father, She lives in Pwllheli I believe. I hope one day to find my great grandfather' birth entry.

[aggiebagwash]

I wouldn't send for it just yet let's see what else we can find first. It will only give her name and her mother's name and you already know that.


If we take it step by step we may pick up some more information on the way. So many older people don't want to reveal family secrets but to be honest I find that a lot of the skeleton's in the cupboard' can usually be worked out anyway.

I've searched on three websites for Hannah and Sarah J on the 1871 census and I can't find them under either Williams or Jones. I thought I'd found Hannah with father Edward on the 1851 but it was the wrong father.

I'll see if I can find her on the 1861 that may help.

Margaret

[Zoe-Hannah]

Thankyou Margaret,

Your help is very much appreciated.

[aggiebagwash]

In an earlier message you said that Sarah's father was called Edward how do you know that?

If her father was Edward Williams then maybe Hannah married a Williams not a Jones and she wasn't illegitimate after all.

I still can't find her on any of the censuses other than the one Dizzifish sent and that's really odd.

[Zoe-Hannah]

I don't know for definite that SarahJ's father was called Edward,

 I was working on the assumption that because her brother Edward had an Edward as the name of his father on his marriage cert, could her father also be called Edward. And she was older than him, I don't that doesn't mean
her father called Edward, and that they were true brother & sister.

But also Sarah J was down as being a williams at the time of her death. in1881 aged 12, I have sent for that cert.

Definitely Rose' father is Henry, and the address on the 1881 census is listed on her birth cert.

So now I totally confused.

[aggiebagwash]

I can't find anything other than what you already know. Hannah doesn't appear on any of the censuses, (and I've searched them 3 times and then double checked). She's too difficult to isolate on the birth records and I can't find a marriage for her to Edward Jones. There is a possibility that as Edward junior married in a Methodist Church Hannah may have married in one also.

I've been thinking about Edward's marriage cert. I wonder if he was known as Jones but he was another illegitimate child and took the Jones surname rather than Williams. I have come across lots of children who suddenly take on the surname of the stepfather but if they are born after censuses and before the marriage it's difficult to prove.

I honestly don't know where else to look but I won't give up just yet she has to be around somewhere.

[Zoe-Hannah]

Thankyou Margaret, I do appreciate all the help you are giving me, But if Edward was illigitimate then I may never find his birth record?  I have tried my Dad's sister for info on Edward her grandfather but she didn't know much, She's in her 80's. but I do feel she knows more than she is letting on,
 

My Great grandfather was also a railway ganger /farmer had a farm in Minffordd near Porthmadog

[aggiebagwash]

I've spent hours on trying to find Hannah on the censuses and decided to see if the 1881 would open up any more information and in the last column for Sarah J it says cripple from birth.

I've isolated two Edward Jones born 1874 in Sheffield which fits in with the 1881 census. One is Edward Benjamin Jones and the other is Edward Apperson Jones. Edward Apperson Jones is on the 1881 as Edward A but the other is just Edward Jones so do we surmise the one called just Edward is Edward Benjamin?

We really need to find out if Edward had any siblings or half siblings other than Rose and Sarah J so we can decide which one it is.

Margaret