What part of Rhyl is Newtown.

[Eldon]

I was checking baptisms in Rhyl and came across:
4:2:1886. Clara daughter of John and Mary Anne Jones, Bookseller of
5 South Terrace, Newtown.
I came across Newtown in a few other baptisms.
In the burial register I came across Edward Jones age 12months from 5 South Kinmel Street.
This was dated 10th April 1897. It is this address that I associate with this family.
There is a North and South Drive in the south of the town built much later.
There is a North and South Avenue in the west of the town when the Winter gardens was developed
in the early 1880s. I have tried an internet search to no avail.
I am asking if 5 South Terrace became 5 South Kinmel Street?
Thank you.

[despair]

I think it is unlikely that there was a South Terrace in 1886.South Kinmel Street is clearly marked on an 1871/72 Rhyl town map.You can view this at www.old-maps.co.uk,use the search term "South Kinmel Street",choose any Rhyl address option,then choose the earliest map from the drop down list on the right.
There are various listings for properties with the address "Terrace" in Newtown Montgomeryshire,perhaps one was known locally as "South Terrace",and they were resident there for a while.
The couple John(bookseller) and Mary Ann Jones are in Bangor in the 1891 census,described as born Llangollen,but with no child.

Regards
Roger

[Eldon]

Hello Mike: Thank you for your reply and the connection to the maps. I haven't yet found any reference to 'Newtown'

The initial information came from the parish records for St Thomas' Church. The family remained in Rhyl.
Regards Eldon.

[taidgazacaz]

If you could find the family in the 1891 census (I've allowed my subscription to lapse, or I'd have a look myself) and if they're still at the South Terrace address, you could look at the adresses roundabout and hopefully locate it geographically.
I've looked at the c1870 OS map, and see that the main streets are named, but there are plenty of other rows of houses that are not.
Rhyl was a new(ish) town in the late 19C, and still expanding, so it could well be that an area was named Newtown.
Have you tried contacting Rhyl library? They might put you in touch with a local historian. I know that there is at least one very good one, but cannot recall his name.

[Eldon]

Thank you for your reply.
In 1891 the family had moved to St Helens Place.
I have thought of the library, but before I go there I will go back to the Record Office and recheck the parish records and see what other street names are used in Newtown.

[Maggi]

Did you have any luck with your Newtown query?  I have just been doing some research for a client whose ancestor's address was Newtown, Rhyl and I have managed to pin it down to the Sisson Street area, if that's any help?!
Regards
Maggi

[despair]

Good find Maggi and apologies to Eldon.Although I still can't find it on any map the reference does appear,uniquely,I think,in the 1881 census

RG11  5528  26 Pages 18-22

The sequence begins after 1-4 Sisson Street:-

1 Newtown (Sisson Terrace)  continues to 12
1               (North Terrace)   continues to 10
1               (South Terrace)   continues to 15

Vale Terrace follows,but not obviously associated with "Newtown".Perhaps for a while it was an expression colloquially associated with development "south" of the railway(?).

Regards
Roger 

[despair]

Comparing the 1877 and 1899 1:2500 scale maps of the area on
www.old-maps.co.uk

the added properties are:-
12 in Sisson Street ("Sisson Terrace"?)
10 in Ernest Street,"north" of the junction with Sisson Street("North Terrace"?)
15(?) in Ernest Street,"south" of the junction with Sisson Street("South Terrace"?)

Regards
Roger

[Eldon]

Many thanks to Maggis and Despair for this information because I would never think of looking at this part of Rhyl.

Looking a photostat of the 1912 map the 3 terraces are clear to see and can be counted and are the same as the 1881 census. However they are incorperated into Sisson Street and Ernest street.

Incidentally the 1912 map has not only the established houses but also future planned houses are shown on it.

If anyone is trying to marry up the numerical house number from a census with today, be aware that in the mid 1960s the postal numbers in Rhyl were changed on a lot of streets. You need to check the 1959 maps which are very clear with numbering which corresponds to the censuses.

Regards Eldon.