McCloskey in Ireland and Glasgow 1851

[cmccloskey56]

I am researching James MCCLOSKEY b 1835 in Ireland, place unknown.
The first census that I find him in is the 1851 Scotland census working as a tailor for Hugh Hefferon, also from Ireland, now established in Glasgow.

James emigrated to the US in 1852 via New York then later to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Earliest documentation in Philadelphia is a bank account  in 1858.
He married Annie KELLY from Philadelphia in 1864 and had loads of kids.
The US part of the story is well documented and consistent, from census records, his marriage, death, baptismal records for his children, etc. He is always noted as born in Ireland and his trade is a tailor.

I am trying to find the story in Ireland, starting with a location.

I have this much evidence -
Born around 1833-35 (from US census records).
Born in Ireland.
Tailor - in all census records starting with Scotland 1851.
Roman Catholic.
Illiterate - his signature is 'X his mark' on documents.

I have nothing on any family members. Up until his marriage he is found in boarding houses, not with family.

At his wedding all the witnesses were from his wife's family. No McCloskeys were witnesses nor were there any McCloskey godparents to his children. This suggests that, in a city full of McCloskeys (Philadelphia has the highest concentration of McCloskeys in the USA), there were very few from his particular branch of the tree.

However, he traveled to America with Catherine McCloskey, age 16, presumably a sister and described as a seamstress. But I cannot find her in Philadelphia, married or unmarried. She must have married in New York and stayed there.

I have tried yDNA testing to find surname matches and from there triangulate to a location.
To my surprise, my James tests as E1B1B, where other McCloskeys that I know test as R1b (85% of Ireland tests this way).
In fact, on three different DNA matching sites, my father matches to people in SCOTLAND, not Ireland.
I know someone who is an exact match - their ancestor came from Ayrshire.
There are other matches to people in Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire.
Not one match to someone in Ireland.

So, how do I explain the Ireland/Scotland crossover?

He is clearly not of the Dungiven McCloskeys, judging by DNA.
Yet in every generation afterwards the first son is named James Eugene McCloskey, with Eugene being the patron saint of Derry.

Can anyone out there make sense of this?
I want to start in the Ireland forum because he is definitely from Ireland, then I may cross the Irish Sea to try in Scotland.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Colleen

[alpinecottage]

It could be that somewhere between James and your father there was an unofficial (ie unrecorded) adoption or infidelity or a step relationship that you're not able to identify now   

[cmccloskey56]

I can't discount that, of course.

Then again , I keep hearing about McCloskeys in Scotland. Coatsbridge, Wigtown, other places. But it's always a case of migrant workers - the Irish come to town to work, then leave.

I'm reading up on the Scottish-Irish connection. One theory says that the MacDonalds 'planted' Antrim when they received a huge land grant. 1500s or thereabouts. This could explain how Scottish DNA patterns are found in Ireland? But I found *no* Irish DNA matches.
Just the idea that folks in Antrim went back and forth to Scotland on a whim.
Just as my James and his Irish employer Hefferon went to Glasgow to work.

Need to find a tailors guild or something.

Thanks for the idea.

Colleen

[sancti]

He may have moved to Scotland during The Great Hunger

Have you found his sister on the 1851 census?

[alpinecottage]

Just to mention, I had a Bessie McCloskey (b c 1831) 2xgt grandmother.  She married John Honan in Ireland c 1851 and they went to Manchester about 1857.  Their first two children were born in Ireland, the second baptised in Belfast, in 1855 - one of the godparents was Anne McCloskey.  I don't know where the first was baptised and he's my ancestor. The family tale is that they came from Magherafelt.   I haven't identified any other McCloskey relatives in Manchester.

[elaine447]

But it's always a case of migrant workers - the Irish come to town to work, then leave.

mine remained   
the McCloskey name changes a lot in Scotland, McCluskey,McLosky,McCluskie,etc etc,
I was a bit luckier in finding that mine had an 1855 Scottish birth in the family which help me to
at least pin point where in Ireland to start looking,
not that I have had much luck in finding them, but if it helps they came from Londonderry, to Renfrewshire 
Elaine

[cmccloskey56]

AlpineCottage, I'm considering the possibility that his mother was a McCloskey and that she did not marry his genetic father.
If so, his father's surname could be *anything*, leaving my James with his mother's maiden name.

So, given his last name and Ireland as place of birth, I should be looking in Ireland for a James McCloskey born in the appropriate year... where? Would an illegitimate child be found in baptism records? This is too early for civil registration.
Or, perhaps, his mother married McCloskey just to secure the name? A 'pity' marriage? That would be found in baptism records.

I hadn't considered the illegitimacy angle before - do I even have enough data to research that?

[cmccloskey56]

Elaine, I like the idea of researching McCloskeys in Scotland.
I'm going to look for a tailor's guild in Glasgow to see what I can find.

Thanks all for helping me clarify where to look.

[sancti]

1841 has an interesting record, perhaps the Irish birth is wrong


John Mcbride 25
Martha Mcbride 30
Samuel Mcbride 9
John Mcbride 3
Jane McCloskie 40 born Ireland, occ Muslin sewer
Catherine McCloskie 10 born Scotland
James McCloskie 7 born Scotland

Address Greenside, Maybole, Ayrshire