Seperated....or not?

[mofid42]

I am trying to understand the truth behind why a couple on my tree appear to have separated....but had they really?.

On the 1861 census Mary Nugent nee Sidden b 1820 Rochester Kent was not living with her husband, Charles James Nugent, and family. Instead she is listed as a visitor in the home of William Moran, who was a Police Officer. Mary is described as a fund holder.

Mary died five years later in Dec 1866. Her address is a street in Kennington Surrey and the witness was not a family member, although Mary is described as the wife of Charles Nugent. She died of Kidney disease

All her money was granted by letters of administration to her husband, whose address was not the same as the one where Mary died, (and I pretty sure from other sources that Charles never lived at the address in Kennington) and she is buried in the same cemetery as some of her children who had died as infants.

If Mary and Charles hadn't separated, then why was she no longer living with him?. I wondered if it was because she was ill so needed someone to care for her, yet her oldest daughter who was 20 in 1861 still lived at home and they had at least one servant.

But why was Mary a Fund Holder and how would she have acquired the fund?

Any ideas?

[Nick29]

I think that it's rather unwise to assume that because someone was a visitor on the day that the census questionnaire was filled in, that he/she would be a permanent guest.  With transport taking rather longer than we're accustomed to today, it wasn't unusual for house guests to 'stay over' for a day or two, especially if they lived some distance away.

When Mary died, she could well have been staying with a close friend.  It may not have been possible for her husband to give her the care she needed, if he had other family to support.  The daughter may have been occupied keeping the household in order.

I'm not saying that your theory isn't correct, but censuses and certificates only record what was happening on one particular day.  If her money was left by letters of administration, this probably meant that she had not made a will, and I would suspect that if she had split with her husband she would have made a will leaving her money to someone else ?

[ReadyDale]

I think Nick is right - I would resist making assumptions based on two snapshots, 5 years apart.

Another possible scenario - she may have gone to Rochester to visit friends or family (I would investgate Mr.Moran and especially his wife to see if they were related, or even their close neighbours, who maybe didn't have a spare room for a visiting relative).
Kennington maybe somewhere she went for treatment for her kidney problem. Maybe worth checking out the address given.
It is very possible that in between these two seperate events, she lived happily with her husband.
But then of course maybe she didn't...

[lyn22]

Could the Kennington address be a Hospital Take care Lynette

[mofid42]

I am not assuming either way, hence my question.

The fact that she was twice recorded not living with her husband gives the impression they may have separated, but had they really?

I have researched Mary's family quite extensively and there is no connection to anyone called Moran. Her husband Charles Nugent's family is a different matter. He and his suspected brother Thomas Peter Nugent have been a brickwall for ever.

The fact that Mary was described as a Fund Holder is also intriguing me. Her mother was still alive, living elsewhere in London, having left her husband in the 1850's. Mary's father Samuel Sidden still lived in Rochester Kent but had gone bankrupt also in the mid 1850's, so I doubt she had received the fund from either of her parents, especially as her father had acquired a second 'wife' and family by 1861.

When he died in 1876 Charles Nugent's obituary described him as a thoroughly honourable and decent man, so IF he had separated from Mary, was he the person who had given her a fund to live on?
He was the box office manager of Her Majesty's Theatre so possibly worked long hours , meaning he couldn't take care of Mary if she was ill. But if Mary did have a long term  illness why was she not cared for at home.

I have tried to find out who the witness to Mary's death may have been but due to the fact only an initial was given as the first name I don't know if the person was male or female. The person was called A Isaacs, there is no indication what relationship they may have to Mary nor their profession if they had one, but their address was the same place where Mary died.

I have also tried to find any information about the address where Mary died but it doesn't appear to be a hospital of any kind, so the whole situation is rather confusing.

[ReadyDale]

Regarding Mr.Moran, I actually meant was to look in to Mr.Moran's wife, rather than Charles Nugent's wife Mary.
I would be tempted to look at the Moran question from the other direction - try to layout a tentative tree for Mr and Mrs Moran and see if there are any link. For instance, maybe Mrs Moran was born Sidden like Mrs Nugent. Lots of possibilities. Of course they may not have been related, maybe just friends, maybe just rented out rooms and Mary was visiting a relative who lived near the Moran and theirs was the place to stay.

With regard to Fund Holder, see this other thread....http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,454700.0.html

As for Kennington, it might be worth putting the address on here, as maybe someone here has some local knowledge that may shed some light on it.

[mofid42]

The address where Mary died in 1866 was 56 Princes Square Kennington 1st Surrey.

In 1861 Mary was a visitor in the house of William Moran at Ponsonby Street Westminster, whilst her husband was living at St Martin's Lane Westminster. He was still at that address in 1863

In 1866 when Mary died her husband's address is given as King William Street Westminster and he was still living there in 1871

When I said I have researched Mary's family, I meant all her siblings, parents, grandparents etc so I doubt William Moran's wife would be a Sidden but I will try and find out who she was. Little is known about the Nugent side of the family so she could have a connection through them.

[groom]

Hi

I can't find 56  Princes Square Kensington in 1861, but in 1871 Frank C Hiteman, a civil engineer, and his wife Fanny E Hiteman, their 7 children and 5 servants were living there,so it was obviously a private house.

[mofid42]

Thanks for checking Groom

I also had a look at who was lving at the address in 1861. On both occasions it appears to be a family home and none of the names mean anything to me, although the head of the household had a profession that could have been used in the theatre so maybe they were known to Mary's husband.

I don't suppose I will ever know for sure exactly what the true situation was.