Joseph Dyson Lister the Independent Zionist, census lookup

[Valda]

03 October 05

Part 1 Purchasing a birth certificate to get Elizabeth's maiden name to cross check against the marriage index in 1837online I don't think is ultimately going to help for the March quarter 1854 marriage (which though risky I still consider a strong possibility).If you look at FreeBMD statistical information for marriages

http//freebmd.rootsweb.com/progressM.shtml

you will see the graph for the March quarter of 1854 is indicating 100% coverage and yet obviously the second woman's name is missing from the index. This is my summary of the research of Michael Whitfield Foster who published his research in a book entitled ‘A Comedy of Errors or The Marriage Records of England and Wales 1837-1899’ pub 1998. He was given access to the General Register Office collection of certificates and the civil registration index at Southport He concludes that the whole system as it was designed did not allow for the checking of accuracy and that there are many errors such as fathers indexed instead of sons, brides indexed with new names etc. Many of the quarterly returns from local registrars were of poor quality or never arrived and when original handwritten index books were replaced, the typing done by the temps involved was not checked exacerbating further a growing catalogue of potential errors and omissions. He estimates that a million errors in the marriage indexes 1837-1899 are very probable. The conclusion is that the only records that come anywhere near to 100% in their accuracy are those held by local registrars. Which means that the 2nd woman's name on the index for the 1854 marriage may just not be in the civil registration index (which is what 1837online has got) - unless of course FreeBMD itself has made an omission error in the transcription of the civil registration index. The argument also follows that 1837online might not necessarily have all the marriages of Samuel Benns if Michael Whitfield Foster is correct since someone has got to be amongst the proposed million missing names. However as the civil registration index is our only source for the time being, I think we need to bury that thought when considering how to obtain the correct Samuel marriage. Which leaves the checking facility for ordering certificates - and a need for a Samuel Benn marriage with a wife named Elizabeth (in either the first or second name??? - just in case, and hope none of the other wives had Elizabeth as their second name? - two Mary Elizabeths/Elizabeth Marys and you're scuppered) - still seems a good suggestion to me to go with. On FreeBMD in the decade 1850-1860 there are only two Samuel Benn marriages in the West Riding of Yorkshire, the other being Samuel Joseph Noble in 1854 in Hunslet. Ruth, Samuel and Elizabeth's eldest child, was born circa 1855. The marriage graph for FreeBMD does show some weak coverage pre this date in 1851 and 1853 in particular.

The 1861 census has 11 Samuel Benns in Yorkshire as possible candidates for the 1854 or yet undiscovered early 1850s marriage Saml Josh Noble Benn abt 1825 Hunslet, Yorkshire, Head Leeds - wife Susannah born circa 1825, distinctive name of Samuel, children born circa 1851 and 1853 so second marriage ignore Samuel Benn abt 1840 Bradford, Yorkshire, Head Bradford wife Maria born circa 1840, only child born aged 1 month therefore likely to be later marriage as his wife is to young, so my feeling is to ignore Samuel Benn abt 1794 Northowram, Yorkshire, Lodger unmarried elderly lodger - ignore  Samuel Benn abt 1811 Clayton, Yorkshire, Head Clayton wife Grace born circa 1812, five children with the couple born between 1843 and 1857, there is a gap between 1848 and 1855 births, so a possibility of a second marriage, but I don't think it is likely - ignore? Samuel Benn abt 1837 Morley, Yorkshire, Head Holbeck wife Hagar born circa 1840 so too young and born in Holbeck, only child born circa 1860 and wrong registration district so ignore Samuel Benn abt 1843 Halifax, Yorkshire, Lodger Huddersfield to young and unmarried ignore   Samuel Benn abt 1843 Hunslet, Yorkshire, Son Leeds to young unmarried ignore Samuel Benn abt 1857 Shipbury Moor, Yorkshire, Son Northowram to young ignore Samuel Benn abt 1831 Wibsey, Yorkshire, Head Farnley wife Mary Benn born circa 1833 Wibsey with two children born circa 1855 (daughter Ruth) and 1859, first child born Wibsey, second Farnley so good candidate Samuel Benn abt 1836 Shelf, Yorkshire, Head North Bierley wife Elizabeth born circa 1832 Horton, three children born 1855 (daughter Ruth) to 1859 North Bierley and two in Horton  Samuel Benn abt 1830 Shelf, Yorkshire, Head Northowram  wife Ruth born circa 1839 Clayton, one child born circa 1859 Northowran - possibility but not perhaps as strong as the previous two as wife is probably to young, so can we ignore this one as well. Of course there is also a possibility of a Samuel marrying and emigrating/dying before the 1861 census, or not being found on the 1861 census. However with what we know the 1854 marriage might be close to a 50/50 chance with no loss if the request is for a marriage with a bride called Elizabeth. If it proves to be the'right' marriage you also save on the look up money for 1837online and save on the purchase of another birth certificate.

Regards
Valda

[Valda]

03 October 05
 
Part 2 My present view re the grandchild Ruth and her whereabouts on the 1871 census is now based on the fact that Benjamin in the same village as Abraham and Ruth is now known to be Samuel (I'm also slightly better on West Yorkshire village geography) so my present hypothesis, waiting to be shot down, is the most likely interpretation is this is the same Ruth staying with her grandparents in the same village as her parents (I also didn't have access to the 1851 census for Samuel in the same village with Abraham and Ruth in 1851, if it is the same man as 1861 and 1871 - we still have the age issue, whereas the Wibsey born Samuel in 1861 gives a birth year of circa 1831 consistently). I think I also at least initially I couldn't find Samuel born Wibsey on the 1871 and 1881 censuses, but I have tracked him back since from the 1891 census, once I worked out he remarried1891 in Bowling born circa 1831 Wibsey with second wife Susannah born circa 1836 Wibsey and daughter Harriet born circa 1872 Wibsey 1881 in Bowling born circa 1831 North Bierley with second wife Susannah born circa 1836 North Bierley and daughter Harriet born circa 1871 North Bierley1871 in North Bierley Samuel born circa 1831 North Bierley, second wife Susannah born 1836 North Bierley, children John and Leah born circa 1859 and 1861 North Bierley. Boarder Joshua Benn born North Bierley circa 1852 (no Ruth daughter from 1861)1861 in Farnley Samuel born circa 1831 Wibsey, wife Mary born circa 1833 Wibsey and children Ruth born circa 1855 Wibsey, John born circa 1859 Farnley and Leah born circa 1861 Farnley. Which makes him a strong candidate particularly because of his age, which is why I suggested the grandchild Ruth might be his. However if we take Joshua Benn who was boarding with the family in 1871 and look for him in 1861 there is only one candidate who is in Farnley with this family (wherever Farnley is - my geography doesn't stretch that far as I don't think we've really had Farnley before) Henry Benn abt 1828 Wibsey, Yorkshire, Head Mary Benn abt 1828 Pudsey, Yorkshire, Wife Joshua Benn abt 1851 Wibsey, Yorkshire, Son Martha E Benn abt 1854 Wibsey, Yorkshire, Daughter Miranda Benn abt 1858 Pudsey, Yorkshire, Daughter Adelaide Benn abt 1860 Farnley, Yorkshire, Daughter There are 4 Ruth Benns all born within 5 years of a birth year circa 1855 on the 1871 census. Three incredibly irritatingly are with their grandparents, while the other to really get me fed up is a niece!!One is born circa 1858 and called Ruth Ann (in 1861 she is born circa 1860 and is with her parents so we can ignore her)One born Wibsey circa 1855 is in Horton and is still with her maternal grandparents in North Bierley in 1861, now born Horton, so she can also be ignored. One born Wibsey circa 1853, a niece with the Hilletts (who were born in Wibsey and Horton) in Horton (if she is the daughter of the other Samuel and his wife Mary then the marriage may be earlier than 1854)and the Ruth born circa 1855 in North Bierley with Abraham and Ruth in North Bierley, who at this point I still think is more likely to be the daughter of Samuel and Elizabeth rather than the doppleganger couple of Samuel and Mary, who though they put in a scarily strong challenge, with more information seem just a little less likely - even though they do hang around North Bierley, but doesn't everyone or at least everyone with the surname Benn. OK what does everyone think? How does it stand up?

Regards
Valda

[Valda]

04 October 05

Hi This excellent Webb site gives tons of info on Calverley, Farnley, Pudsey areas. Just type Benn in the search, click, then choose one of the census returns, news items or wills or whatever the returns are. It is usually easier to then search the census returns using Ctrl F.(http//www.calverley.info/calverley.htm)Have a look at the enumeration district information. It gives an insight into the type of industry in the area. Going by the street names the area where Samuel is in 1861 looks like it is next to Low Moor. Farnley however, is in Leeds, North of Bradford 12 o clock and almost at the opposite side of Bradford to Shelf. We also have a Farsley so I will have to go back and have another look at that census. Had a look at my A to Z Farnley is now known as New Farnley and is near Pudsey. Some distance from Shelf but still less than half a day’s walk and if you were chasing work (or trying to confuse your descendents) it would be a worthwhile move.Pudsey is further round and is on the border between Bradford and Leeds. At about 3 o clock on the view we used earlier. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough earlier but Wibsey and North Bierley are one and the same or rather Wibsey is a part of North Bierley. Horton is next to Wibsey but is a place on it's own. All of them can be termed Bradford for enumeration purposes and indeed were in the later censuses. This is particularly relevent when there are 'strays'. In a similar context 'born Halifax' can mean born Northowram or Shelf or Queensbury and also born Farnley or Pudsey can mean the same as born Leeds Without being patronizing, it might be easier if you are unfamiliar with the areas involved to just draw the clock and put in the place names.

Regards
Dave


04 October 05

The 1861 Farnley Samuel is in Hunslet registration district, Sub-registration district Wortley [Near Leeds] which didn't help me much as the only Farnley I could find was north of Otley (north of Bradford) - however Dave, from your information I now see New Farnley south of Pudsey between Leeds and Bradford, but closer to Leeds, so I'm presuming this is the place. I'll have to take you word for the half a day walk bit. On my map it looks further than that.

Regards
Valda


04 October 05

Hi Valda, Do a 'find in page' for Farnley on Genuki at

http//www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/wry.htm

It seems that Farnley was very much a moveable feast. But it was even worse than that - there seem to have been two places called Farnley and they don't distinguish between them on the Genuki page! One north of Otley, and one between Pudsey and Leeds near Wortley. And now there's also a New Farnley. If one squints at the small print, one can see all these places in the one view on Multimap atClick here for view including two places called Farnley and also a New Farnley also Hunslet appears immediately below and to the left of the word Leeds
 
(http//www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&ampX=430000.399874512&ampY=440000.829243871&ampwidth=700&ampheight=400&ampgride=&ampgridn=&ampsrec=0&ampcoordsys=gb&ampdb=freegaz&ampaddr1=&ampaddr2=&ampaddr3=&amppc=&ampadvanced=&amplocal=&amplocalinfosel=&ampkw=&ampinmap=&amptable=&ampovtype=&ampzm=0&ampscale=100000&ampout.x=1&ampout.y=6)

As far as I can make out ...(a) The story for the Farnley which was initially in Hunslet seems to be1837-1862Farnley is listed as being in Hunslet (1837-1862) 1862-1869Farnley is listed as being in Kirkstall (Kirkstall had been created in 1862 out of Hunslet, and was abolished in 1869)1869-1925Farnley is listed as being in Bramley (Bramley had been created in 1863 out of Hunslet and Otley it was abolished and renamed Leeds North on 1 Jan 1925)1925-?Farnley is listed as being in Leeds North (Bramley having been renamed Leeds North)(b) The story for the Farnley which was initially in Otley seems to be1837-1861Farnley is listed as being in Otley.1861-?Farnley is listed as being in Wharfedale (Wharfedale was created out of Otley in 1861)Well, why should they make it easy for us!
JAPPS
And Wikipedia indicates that there's a Farnley Hall (a stately home) in each of these two places called Farnley ....

[Valda]

04 October 05
 
I think the Farnley N. of Otley is out of the frame. It is a small village close to where I live (in Guiseley) and has a Leeds post code even though it is in Wharfedale (Valley of the river Wharfe) This is the one at 12 o clock on the Bradford map.Farnley near Wortley adjoins New Farnley - which still has some of the place names associated with the enumeration district of the Farnley where Samuel was living in 1861 eg. Low Moor Lane, Low Moor Side and Forge Lane. Names that initially I associated with Low Moor, Bradford.On a lighter note I think all this name changing is to confuse the Lancastrians if they ever try to invade. We have a Bolton Abbey in Wharfedale, that is nowhere near Bolton and is actually not an abbey but a priory, even though everyone calls it an abbey!!

Regards
Dave



October 05

OK, good to know we are making so much progress in the obviously easier section of the task - researching the line in the second half of the C19th!We don't really seem to be inching forward much. Do I sense a touch of hysteria seeping in? To reinterate we have a Samuel with Abraham and Ruth on the 1851 census who is either the Samuel or the doppleganger Samuel. The Samuel marries Elizabeth, the doppleganger marries Mary. The Samuel is born Shelf (and may move his birth year around) and place of birth. The other Samuel is born Wibsey/North Bierley and is consistent with the birth year 1831. Both rather conveniently have daughters called Ruth born circa 1855 (but one may be older) in the same place. The doppleganger Samuel possibly has a relative called Joshua Benn born circa 1851/2 the son of Henry Benn born circa 1828 Wibsey and his Pudsey born wife Mary born circa 1828 (some disaster having struck this family by 1871 as Miranda their daughter is adopted and living in West Ardsley) - may be Joshua was a nephew, staying with Samuel in 1871? One Ruth in 1871 born circa 1855 was with her grandparents Abraham and Ruth. The other born circa 1853 could possibly have been a niece with the Hilletts (not totally convinced this is their surname but entire family disappears anyway whatever their name is) - may not be the other Ruth who after all could just have died or been missed off the census. So if there is a Samuel with Abraham and Ruth on the Bradford 1851 census, is there another Samuel born circa 1831 Wibsey/North Bierley preferably with an older brother called Henry (or in reality is he an older child for Abraham and Ruth and the doppleganger is really their son despite wandering off to Farnley and no Henry on the IGI)?

I lost the plot on the 1851 Bradford census sometime ago and I agree a census lookup for the 1851 census for Halifax district and any Samuel's in Shelf in particular would be useful. And we're all agreed we need a marriage certificate for Samuel. Dave I don't think Yorkshire ever needed to worry about being attacked from Lancashire with the 'Bradford triangle' as the first line of defence (who ever thought it was the Pennines). The Lancasterians obviously could not have got ten miles without getting completely confused!!

Regards
Valda


05 October 05
 
Hi I have a Cold Harbour, Northowram as a birth place for some of my rellies, so today I thought that I would try Genuki. I didn't find what I wanted but I did find this site that explains the where-a-bouts of everything more yonderly than

http//www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Where/QuickGuide.html

Dave

[Valda]

05 October 05

I am more than happy to put my hand up to hysteriaI am now officially hysterical- and you know there is another Farnley which I automatically thought you meant, not having heard of the other ones in Bradford. This is Farnley  Tyas, in south Huddersfield - next to its big landmark, Castle Hill. But now I have learnt about the Bradford Farnley near Wortley that sounds so much better. Although I was confused for a bit with Wortley, thinking of the one north of Sheffield.....hence the hysteria. Right, I have ordered the marriage certificate for 1854 and specified that the bride has to have Elizabeth amongst her first names. I will now post some extra requests for help on this board - for lookups or help with finding lookups in Halifax in 1841 and 1851.I will also search all 13 parts of the 1851 census for Bradford - you have to do them one at a time as each is a separate PDF - for a Henry Benn If I have missed something, please can you let me know. And is it or is not worth my getting a birth certificate for young Joshua or young Ellen to find out their mother's maiden name? Or have I already done that? Confused? I thought Avica the mysterious lady was a tough nut but that was easy in comparison to this family. Thanks to the three of you for keeping on keeping on

Very best wishes
Louise


05 October 05

Louise,I think the Farnleys are Leeds not Bradford, Wortley definitely is.

Dave

[Valda]

05 October 05
 
In fairness to all the census enumerators who enumerated all the Benns so far, they have given real places in Yorkshire correctly speltPlan a) was the 1854 marriage. Plan b) was to get one of the children's birth certificates and then try to trace Elizabeth's marriage on 1837online from the known maiden name if plan a) failedHowever according to this message on a Genealogy forum in 2002 - Louise you already know Elizabeth's maiden name

http//genforum.genealogy.com/benn/messages/298.html

Thanks for your message. I cannot see a connection with your Samuel to my Ellen at this stage, but I do have a Samuel Benn in another branch of my tree who was perhaps born around the time you are talking about. I'm afraid I don't know very much about him, but he was married to Elizabeth JOWETT and they had a daughter called Ann BENN, who was born about 1860 in North Bierley. Ann married Leonard Ormondroyd in 1876 and at that time she was from Wibsey and her father, Samuel, was a worsted weaver. Does this fit with anything? and another person on another forum who nobody responded to emailed this in 1999 About my BENN family (and if I've already sent this - sorry)The farthest that I've gone back is to William and Mary Benn (I don't have a maiden name for Mary or birthdates or anything). However, I'm guessing that William &amp Mary were born around the late 1700's - or very early 1800's,because of their children's birthdates Elizabeth Benn(b. 1818) married James Isherwood Zillah Benn(b. 1820) married Charles Worsnop Mary Benn (b. 1825) married John Hartley Margaret Benn(b. 1832)Samuel Benn(b. 1833) - my gg grandfather - married Elizabeth Jowett (b. 1832 - Horton). They were married in Bradford, England Joshua Benn(b. 1837) If any of you have a connection, I'd love to hear from you.

http//archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BENN/1999-03/0921551273

Whether she is right or not I'm just impressed she got back that far considering the heavy weather we are making of it! If she's correct this completely throws out Abraham and Ruth and puts them as the parents of the doppleganger I did once think one of the two Samuel's might be married to a Jowett because in the 1871 census one of the potential granddaughters Ruth was with her Jowett grandparents. However she was the granddaughter who was still with her Jowett grandparents in 1861, so unless she was enumerated twice in 1861 (which on reflection I wouldn't put passed the Benns - since they are using every other trick in the book to totally confuse) she was out of the frame, because both the two Ruths we were looking for were with their parents in 1861. This Ruth's Jowett grandparents were George and Ruth, just for information if George's name comes up on the marriage certificate. These are two of the marriage references that go with the Benn siblings mentioned in the second forum message Benn, Elizabeth 1851 March Marriages Bradford Isherwood, James 1851 March Marriages Bradford BENN, Zilla 1841 September Marriages Bradford WORSNOP, Charles 1841 September Marriages Bradford Nothing on the IGI for the children's baptisms except an LDS member's insertion. Zillah Worsnop on the 1861 census is I think in Manningham Bradford Charles Worsnop abt 1822 Horton, Yorkshire, Head Zillah Worsnop abt 1820 Chatt Hill, Yorkshire, Wife Charles has remarried by 1871.I cannot see Elizabeth Isherwood on the 1861 census and trying to find Mary Hartley's marriage and census is difficult with so many Hartleys. Where precisely is Chatt Hill? Putting in Chatt Hill in Google I discovered there is a Jowett one name study

http//www.jowitt1.org.uk/wry1830.htmandhttp//www.Blimey/cgibin/surname.cgi?find=jowett&ampGo=Search

but I didn't discover where Chatt Hill actually was. I also then checked Benn with the Guild of One Studies to rather belatedly discover it is registered

http//www.Blimey/cgibin/surname.cgi?find=benn&ampGo=Search

Now that's what I call real dedication! Louise you may want to email the 'one namer' this thread to see what he makes of it and try to contact the people on the other two old forums. Now we are probably also looking on the 1851 census for a William and Mary with a Samuel, if not on the 1851 census index for Bradford, then in the Halifax census index (fascinating as the detour to Farnleys of West Yorkshire has been for all of us).

Regards
Valda

[Valda]

06 October 05

If you put Chat Hill Road, Bradford in Multimap (just one 't'), it brings up a Chat Hill Road near Thornton. And, changing the scale a couple of steps, shows a Chat Hill to the right of the road.

JAP
         
         
06 October 05
 
Chat Hill as JAP says is at the Bradford end of Thornton. 9 o’ clock on our map. It is short (400 yards)and has farmland either side and features on the Bronte trail. I don't remember any other industry except an old corn mill on Pinch Beck. Nearby Thornton had lots of Mining and Textiles. At the end of Chat Hill, in the valley, there is Low lane that goes up to Clayton and Cockin Lane (I'm not kidding) that goes up to Queensbury. Chat Hill is a rather pleasent area typical of unspoilt farmlands on the outskirts of East Bradford with a few scattered late 17C farmsteads.

Dave
   

      
06 October 05
 
Oh dear! It seems I have been a rather poor genealogist Valda. What you seem to have found in those two sets of messages from years gone by, is that my gggrandfather is possibly Samuel Benn, son of William Benn - which would mean perhaps that the birth certificate I bought twenty years ago and discounted, might in fact be the right one. So my first black mark. It would also mean that I potentially already knew all this I note my flippant remark in the post you show where I say "Your Samuel could be my Samuel if he was a wayward husband or a widow." That will come back to haunt me. Another black mark. I am now going to email the three people who seem to have some information, Bob Chapple, Martin Bentley and Val Kanch is and see if any of the email addresses are still in working order. I have been in touch with Bob Chapple a few times over the years I think, mostly helping him tie up my more recent Benn family members for his one name study. I am looking forward to seeing what the marriage certificate throws up now - and to finding some new family members! I will keep you posted

Best wishes
Louise

[Valda]

06 October 05
 
Martin Bentley is no slouch, he has emailed me back already, hope you are ready for all this! (answer probably will have to come in parts)Hello Louise! Thank you for contacting me and pointing me in the direction of your "problem thread".I have had a very quick scan through and see you have all sorts of problems. I certainly aren't going to solve any of them, but I will forward you the following information I have on the few BENNS that appear in my tree. Please feel free to pass it on to your fellow researchers and I would be glad to hear from anyone with any firm links. I would also like to make contact with "Dave the Tyke" on your thread – He seems to have every surname that I am researching! If you could put me in touch, I would be grateful. I do not have a direct connection with the BENN family, just some distant links via marriages into my various Ormondroyd lines, so I have not done any serious research into the BENNS. Anyway, here is the info I have. Hope it helps!

St. Peter's, Bradford – Marriages Ref 40D90/1/3/42P224 No44828 Mar 1853 David ORMONDROYD, 21, Bach, Miner, Wibsey, Joseph Ormondroyd, Boiler?? Ellen BENN, 20, Spin, Weaver, Wibsey, David Benn, Miner Witnesses William Holmes &amp Ephraim Smith Believed Ellen BENN was illegitimate and made up the father's name when she married. In view of this there is an entry which may suit her baptism St. Peter's, Bradford – Baptisms Ref 40D90/1/2/9P196 No28820 Apr 1835Ellen BENN, daughter of Mary, Wibsey, Spinster (b. 8 Jan 1833)

Here are Ellen's Census entries through the years (Interestingly with a grandson called "Lister" Ormondroyd in the later years)1861 Census P3347 ED10 F5 SN22 Dwelling Littlemoor Lane, Pudsey David HORMANROYD Head M 29 Coal miner Wibsey Ellen HORMANROYD Wife M 28 Wibsey Sergeant HORMANROYD Son 4 Pudsey Melisa HORMANROYD Dau 2 Pudsey1871 CensusP4540 ED30 F32 SN94Dwelling 8 Play Ground, Farnley David ORMONDROYD Head M 39 Coal miner North Bierley Ellen ORMONDROYD Wife M 38 North Bierley Sargent ORMONDROYD Son 14 Stuff warehouse boy Pudsey Melissa ORMONDROYD Dau 12 Cotton factory hand Pudsey Ben ORMONDROYD Son 9 Scholar Pudsey Ann ORMONDROYD Dau 6 Scholar Pudsey1881 Census Dwelling Mill Field Census Place North Bierley, Yorkshire, York, England Source FHL Film 1342060   PRO Ref RG11  Piece 4435  Folio 50  Page1Marr Age Sex Birthplace David ORMONDROYD M 49 M North Bierley, Yorkshire, York, England Rel Head Occ Coal Miner Ellen ORMONDROYD M 48 F North Bierley, Yorkshire, York, England Rel Wife Sargent ORMONDROYD U 24 M Pudsey, York, England Rel Son Occ Stuff Maker Up Melissia ORMONDROYD U 22 F Pudsey, York, England Rel Daur Occ Cotton Winder Ben ORMONDROYD U 19 M Pudsey, York, England Rel Son Occ Woolsorter Ann ORMONDROYD U 16 F Pudsey, York, England Rel Daur Occ Cotton Winder Ruth ORMONDROYD  7 F Horton, York, England Rel Daur Occ Scholar1891 Census Dwelling Mill Field, North Bierley David ORMAND Head M 59 General Labourer North Bierley Ellen ORMAND Wife M 58 North Bierley Ben ORMANDROYD Son W 29 Woolsorter Pudsey Ruth ORMANDROYD Dau S 17 French drawer Horton Lister ORMANDROYD GrSon 6 Scholar North Bierley1901 CensusP4177 ED17 F5 SN1Dwelling 1 &amp 3 Windmill Hill, North Bierley David ORMONDROYD Head M 69 Retired coal miner Bradford Ellen ORMONDROYD Wife M 68 Bradford Sarjent ORMONDROYD Son S 44 (Paralysed 6 years) Pudsey Ruth ORMONDROYD Dau S 27 Worsted weaver Bradford Lister ORMONDROYD GrSon S 16 Worsted yarn washer Bradford Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Wibsey - Burials LDS film 165740229 May 1907Ellen ORMONDROYD, mother of Benjamin, 3 Windmill Hill, Wibsey, aged 74.Grave ref 14M?Going on from the Lister connection. David O and Ellen BENN did actually have their own child called Lister

[Valda]

06 October 05

St. Peter's, Bradford – Baptisms Ref 40D90/1/2/13P602 No38630 Apr 1854Lister ORMONDROYD, son of David &amp Ellen, Wibsey, Miner (b. 29 Sep 1853)(Born only 6 months after their marriage - a good ole' shotgun wedding!) YorkshireBMD Yorkshire Death indexes for the years 1859 Surname Forename(s) Age District Region Reference ORMONDROYD Lister - Pudsey Leeds PUDSEY/12/427 Another Ormondroyd / BENN connection I have is St. Peter's, Bradford – Marriages Ref 40D90/1/3/42P26 No 5119 Dec 1852 William BENN, 22, Bach, Miner, Bowling, Benjamin Benn, Miner Matty ORMONDROYD, 19, Spin, Weaver, Bowling, James Ormondroyd, Labourer Witnesses William Holmes and Ephraim Smith

And the census entries for William St. Peter's, Bradford – Baptisms Ref 40D90/1/2/10P11 No861 Jun 1836 William BENN, son of Benjamin &amp Mary, Shelf, Miner (b. 25 Sep 1830)1851 CensusED1 F24 SN162Dwelling Buttershaw, North Bierley Benjamin BENN Head M 54 Coal miner Shelf Mary BENN Wife M 48 Coal miner's wife Shelf Samuel BENN Son U 26 Weaver Shelf Sarah BENN Dau U 22 Weaver Shelf William BENN Son U 20 Coal miner Shelf Thos. BENN Son U 16 Coal miner Shelf Easter BENN Dau 13 Weaver Shelf Harriet BENN Dau 10 Scholar North Bierley1861 CensusP3315 ED20 F87 SN130 Dwelling 522 Galloway Hill, Bowling William BENN Head M 30 Carter Bireley Martha BENN Wife M 27 Bireley Margret BENN Dau 2 Bireley Wibsey

Wesleyan Methodist Chapel - Burials No208 23 Mar 1868 William BENN, husband of Matty, Bowling, age 36. Grave ref 20 Blackburn Registers Wibsey Reform Chapel - MI's No. 60 In memory of William BENN of Bowling Lane Top, who died March 19th 1868 aged 37/9. Also Adam, son of the above, who died on 23rd January 1865, aged 2 years 9 months. Also of Matty Gardener, wife of the above, born September 14th 1831, died July 19th 1899.When William died, Matty remarried Thomas GARDENER St. Peter's, Bradford – Marriages Ref 40D90/1/3/81P236 No47113 Sep 1869Thomas GARDNER, 43, Bach, Draper, Bowling, John Gardner, Farmer Matty BENN, 36, Wid, Bowling, James Ormondroyd, Carter Witnesses William Holmes &amp Christopher Gibson

Yet another Ormondroyd / BENN connection is FreeBMD Marriages Jun 1872 BENN Ruth  Bradford Y 9b 334 ORMONDROYD Charles  Bradford, Y. 9b 334

1881 Census Dwelling Brown Royd Hill Census Place North Bierley, York, England Source FHL Film 1342060  PRO Ref RG11  Piece 4435  Folio 40  Page26Marr Age Sex Birthplace Ruth ORMONDROYD M 35 F North Bierley, York, England Rel Head Occ Formerly Worsted Weaver Eliz. ORMONDROYD 7 F North Bierley, York, England Rel Dau Occ Scholar Clara ORMONDROYD 5 F North Bierley, York, England Rel Dau Occ Scholar Emily ORMONDROYD 3 F North Bierley, York, England Rel Dau Ada THORTON W 38 F North Bierley, York, England Rel Visitor Occ Worsted Weaver
1891 Census P3618 ED24 F31 SN130 Dwelling 303 Bowling Old Lane, Bowling Charles ORMONDROYD Head M 41 Fruiterer Bradford Ruth ORMONDROYD Wife M 41 Bradford Elizabeth ORMONDROYD Dau U 17 Dress maker Bradford Clara ORMONDROYD Dau U 15 Fruiterer's assistant Bradford Emily ORMONDROYD Dau 13 Bradford Carrie ORMONDROYD Dau 2 Bradford Helena ORMONDROYD Dau 11m Bradford
1901 Census P4147 ED35 F13 SN111 Dwelling 17 Parsonage Road, West Bowling, Bradford Charles ORMONDROYD Head M 50 Greengrocer shopkeeper Bradford Ruth ORMONDROYD Wife M 53 Bradford Emily ORMONDRYD Dau S 23 Dressmaker Bradford Carrie ORMONDROYD Dau S 12 Bradford Helena ORMONDROYD Dau 10 Bradford Ada THORNTON Aunt W 56 Cotton weaver Bradford Percy MAYBURY Visitor S 25 Commercial traveller Barton, Lancs

Death Certificate Bradford, Bowling34614 Apr 191517 Parsonage Road, Ruth ORMONDROYD, aged 68, Wife of Charles, Drysalter's traveller, Cancer of liver Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Wibsey - Burials LDS film 165740216 Apr 1915Ruth ORMONDROYD, wife of Charles, 17 Parsonage Road, aged 68.
The Blackburn Registers Wibsey Wesleyan Reform Chapel - MI'sNo.87In memory of Ruth ORMONDROYD, the beloved wife of Charles Ormondroyd who died April 14 1915 in her 69th year. Also of the above named Charles Ormondroyd who died January 2? 1922 in his 72nd year. ENDS

I have not had time to read all this yet, but will save it all up for later, it looks very interesting stuff. Martin has now joined the site having seen how great it is while looking at this thread. Welcome!