1841C - Where were John and Mary Ann Smith married?

[copperbeech5]

Hi,

I am raking over old coals here, but am trying to come at the problem from a different angle, and could really use some help - please!

In the 1841C (HO /107/870/15) John and Mary (Ann) Smith are listed as both being 50 - living in Nottingham - I think from the census, their address is Buck Lane.
 
John states he was not born in the County -  but Mary states she was.
John occupation is listed as a lacemaker.

I have searched for a record of their marriage for so long, but no joy. I estimate that they would have married (if at age 21) in 1809(ish).

Can anyone help to find a record of their marriage?? I imagine as she is from the county it would be likely that it would be Nottingham - but that thought is obviously not set in stone.

Many thanks, and any suggestions much appreciated.

Best wishes,
Copperbeech5

[Alexander.]

Hi Copperbeech5,

Ahh, the John Smith problem. Everyone has one (or more) of those.

There are lots of John Smith & Mary marriages in Nottingham St Mary, but no Mary Anns that would fit.

Based on the children living with John and Mary on the 1841 census, the earliest child I can find (for certain) is Algernon Sidney Smith, baptised 23 Nov 1814 in Nottingham St Mary. There may have been other children before then, but at least you know they were married by 1814, which rules out some later marriages. Do you know where the name Algernon Sidney came from - it could provide hints to John or Mary's background.

Are either John or Mary alive in 1851? Do you know when they died, as that would give us more exact ages?

Alexander

[trish1120]

ALGERNON SIDNEY Smiths 23 Dec 1814 Baptism has his Fathers Occp as a Warehouseman, abode Parliament St.

Others;
EDWARD Smith 01 March 1819, Father Lace Manufacturer, abode Derby Rd
HELEN Smith 16 December 1816, Father Warehouseman, abode Derby Rd
JOHN ROBERT Smith 06 May 1821, Father Lace Manufacturer, abode Derby Rd

I looked 1814 +/- 10yrs
there are plenty of others to a John/Mary but no other deatils are shown.
Source FreeREG

[trish1120]

1881 Census Sidney/Edward SMITH c 1816/1819, born Nottinghamshire are in Hastings, Sussex.
Both Retired Lace Manufacturers and both Unmarried.
Annie Greenhalgh, 64, Annuitant, Unm,  born Nottingham, is with them described as a Cousin.

1871 Ed/Sid are together in Notts.

Tracing Annie back may be the key to this

Anne is easy to find;
1891 with;
Brother Hertbert J GREENHALGH
Sister Sarah Clay CLARKE (Widow)
In Mansfield, Notts
1861 with Mother SARAH

1851 Census
Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
HO107/2124/225/52
Richard GREENHALGH, 63, Head, Mar, Manufacturer, born Sawley, Derbyshire
Sarah, 63, Wife, Mar
James, 35, Son, Un, Manufacturer
ANNE, 32, Daug, Unm
Sarah, 29, Daug, Unm
+ 2 Servants
All the other Greenhalghs born Nottinghamshire.

[trish1120]

A Tree has Sarah Greenhalgh as nee CLAY and they Married 04 May 1813, St Nicholas, Nottinghamshire.

So is Mary Smith nee Clay?

[trish1120]

All circumstancial at this stage;

FreeREG;
CLAY Baptised St Nicholas, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire to ROBERT/ANN;
JOHN 26 March 1781
RICHARD 21 Oct 1782
THOMAS 26 July 1784
MARY ANN 26 April 1786***
SARAH 28 March 1788***
ROBERT 06 April 1790
ANN 11 March 1792
ELIZABETH 22 Feb 1794
FRANCES 22 Feb 1794
ELLEN 25 Feb 1798

Robert CLAY of St Nicholas Parish married Ann STEPHENSON of St Mary Parish, 22 June 1780, St Mary, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire

All on FreeREG

[trish1120]

1851 Census,
Toll Street,
Nottingham St Mary, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire
HO107/2131/422/19
Mary A SMITH, 60, Widow, Annuitant, born Nottingham, St Nicholas
Edward Smith, 30, Son, Unm, Lace Manufacturer, born Nottingham, St Mary    
John R Smith, 28, Son, Unm, Lace Manufacturer, born Nottingham, St Mary
+ 1 Servant

They seem to be a little out with their Birth Dates.

[Alexander.]

I'm very impressed, Trish. I'm sure you're onto something...

...but where is the marriage between John Smith and Mary Ann (Clay?).

The closest I can find is:
Nottingham St Mary
28 Apr 1806 - John SMITH & Mary CLAYTON

Could Clayton be a mistake? It might be worth a look at the original to see if it holds any clues.

Another option is that Mary was married to someone else before she married John Smith. Possibles at Nottingham St Mary...
10 Sep 1804 - John SMITH & Mary BARKER
24 Feb 1806 - John SMITH & Mary WILKINSON
10 May 1807 - John SMITH & Mary SAYERS
2 Aug 1807 - John SMITH & Mary WARRINGTON

If Mary Ann was the daughter of Robert Clay, it would be worth looking to see if Robert left a will because that would hopefully name any children. It looks like he died in 1835 in Nottingham:
Nottingham St Nicholas burials
5 Feb 1835 - Robert Clay, 78, Lister Gate
7 May 1821 - Ann Clay, 65, Houndsgate

Alexander

[copperbeech5]

Hi Freckneale and Trish,

Gosh, I am humbled by ALL the work you have both  been so busy doing for me in the last 24 hrs! 
Gold medals to you both, I really am staggered - THANK You both.

 Freckneale,

Can I ask where you found the birth details?
The reason I ask is I have searched in the past - and over a long period of time (though judging by your efforts I have not been looking in the right place.) Smiths eh?!
John dies in 1844, so sadly no further paper trail on him.
Mary (Ann)  dies in 1859.

The "Algernon" bit of Sidney is the first mention of that name I have ever heard of for Sidney.  I have only ever known him as Sidney!

Also so helpful to know that they were married by 1814.  Looks like I shall be off to the Archive on Saturday!!

Trish,
Wow, at this moment, I am quite overwhelmed (delighted too of course)trying to rapidly digest all this information, so please bear with me if I am not moving to fast!

I did have all the other census returns for them, but good to have a refresher!

I also have been and read both Wills for clues for Sidney and Edward.

Not a lot in Sidney's but Edwards is very convoluted, and mentions various GREENHALGH's.

I will be back to you both tomorrow, but need to read and think, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you!!

Thanks again,

Kind regards,
Copperbeech5