John Griffiths and Mary Games m c1854

[Abygail]

I'm researching the paternal line of my grandchildren and am hoping someone is able to give me a push over the hill I'm stuck at.
If I have the correct couple - John Griffiths and his wife Mary Games married 1854 (Reg# 910) and John died 2 Dec 1902 and is buried at Williamstown Vic.  I think he was born c 1831 given his age at his death but am unsure as to his origins Welsh or Irish??  I haven't found his parents listed in passenger arrivals (John and Martha Griffiths??) so I assume he came alone but when?   I know even less re Mary Games/Crames.
I have found 7 children in the Victorian birth records from 1858 (William George Griffiths through to John Ernest Mowbray Griffiths in 1878 (Reg# 6835, George died 1887 at Richmond aged 9 yrs Reg # 11688.
William George Griffiths married Louisa Jane Hay Marriner in 1884 Reg# 2343.
There may be more children born prior to 1858 but they will be a challenge to locate.
Is anyone able to help me re John Griffiths and his wife Mary Games/Crames please.
Abygail

[johngirl]

Hi Abygail,

I`m not sure if this is the Death and Funeral Notice of your John Griffiths as the date of death differs by one day and the burial ground is not Williamstown but Melbourne General Cemetery.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9076472

Just thought you may have the death date wrong and the burial ground wrong which may throw you a bit off the track.It also may mean I have found the wrong John Griffiths Death and Burial notice 

 Johngirl

[cando]

If I have the correct couple - John Griffiths and his wife Mary Games married 1854 (Reg# 910) and John died 2 Dec 1902 and is buried at Williamstown Vic.  I think he was born c 1831 given his age at his death but am unsure as to his origins Welsh or Irish??  I haven't found his parents listed in passenger arrivals (John and Martha Griffiths??) so I assume he came alone but when?   I know even less re Mary Games/Crames.

Their marriage certificate will help you.
Info on marriage certs in Victoria - from the Australian Resources and Offers Board.
 Date and place of marriage;
 name and surnames;
 conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
 stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
 children by each former marriage;
 birthplace;
 occupation;
 age;
 residence (present and usual);
 parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of    father;
 signatures of the parties and witnesses;
 signature of Minister. Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of  the parties is also shown.

I have found 7 children in the Victorian birth records from 1858 (William George Griffiths through to John Ernest Mowbray Griffiths in 1878 (Reg# 6835, George died 1887 at Richmond aged 9 yrs Reg # 11688.
There may be more children born prior to 1858 but they will be a challenge to locate.

Birth certificates in Victoria name all previous children of the marriage.  The 1878 certificate would be the most useful.
Information on birth certificates in Victoria 
 Date and place of birth;
 name of child and whether present or not;
 name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
 occupation of parents;
 ages and birthplace of parents;
 date and place of marriage of parents;
 previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
 signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
 names of witnesses;
 date and place of registration.

Images of certificates can be purchased online $20 and immediately downloaded.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

I can't see a John GRIFFITHS buried at Williamstown Cemetery in 1902.
http://www.gmct.com.au/our-locations/williamstown-cemetery.aspx

If you have taken the date of death from a burial database just be aware that many databases show the date of burial as the date of death.

There is no headstone for John GRIFFITHS who died in 1902 at Melbourne General Cemetery.

Do you have any certificates for this family?

What was John's occupation?

Cheers
Cando

[Abygail]

2 thank you's - I have found the same death notice in Trove, so it looks like I am working on the same info as this.   
I have been working through the micro fiche of the death records rather than buy certificates - hate buying the incorrect certs.  Need to start on the marriage and birth records now.
I have worked my way back from the present to John Griffiths and as I have already mentioned - was unsure if I had the 'right' person.  Looks like I may have the 'right' person.
Looks like I have some more work to do - thanks for your help.
Abygail

[cando]

Abygail I am puzzled...there is no burial for a John GRIFFITHS at Williamstown and yet you say you have this information.

Many of us have the bdm resources to help you. 

Could you please post your John's occupation? I notice that births to John and Mary were at Belfast - Port Fairy and the death notice states he died on the 1st not 2nd.

The Argus  Tuesday 2 Dec 1902

GRIFFITHS.--On the 1st December at 36 John-street, Williamstown, John Griffiths for many years resident of Port Fairy, late of H.M.Customs, aged 71 years.    Peace, perfect peace. 

According to the funeral notice he is buried at Melbourne General Cemetery not Williamstown.

Perhaps this are his sons born at Belfast - Port Fairy

Australian Electoral Roll
1903
GRIFFITHS Charles Edward  64 John Street, Williamstown Contractor
GRIFFITHS Isabella  64 John Street, Williamstown  HD

1914
GRIFFITHS Charles Edward Bellvue  Forster Street, Williamstown Builder
GRIFFITHS George Edward  Bellvue  Forster Street, Williamstown  Carpenter
GRIFFITHS Isabella Bellvue  Forster Street, Williamstown  HD
GRIFFITHS Mary Isabel  Bellvue,  Forster Street, Williamstown  Dressmaker

John may have arrived at Portland not Melbourne when he emigrated to Aus.


Cando

[Abygail]

Hi cando,
I must have had my brain in neutral
- John died on the 1/12/1902 and the funeral was the 2/12/1902.
- How I missed the funeral notice is beyond me, must be old age?
- So yes he died the 1/12/1902, he had been an employee of HM Customs.   According to digger he was 71 yrs of age, but according to the 'Index of Deaths Registered in Victoria during the Years 1902 - 1906 there are 4 John Griffiths deaths recorded for 1902.   The first, Reg no 16083 Jno Griffiths Father Jno, Mother Owens, Martha Place of death looks like T msten age 70?
#2 - Jno Griffiths neither parent listed Place of death Biswit**** age 81 Reg no 813
#3 - Jno Wm Griffiths Father Jno Mother not listed PoD P*** age 79 Reg no 3131
#4 - Jonathon Griffiths Father Hy (Henry?) Mother Stevens? Helen PoD Melb East age 68 yrs Reg no 2490

The print out isn't the easiest to read but I think I have read it correctly.   I'm still learning the shorthand used for town names. 
The main reason I have gone with the former resident of Williamstown over the other 3 is  it seems to match with the small amount of information I already have re the Griffiths family.  The children were born at Belfast/Port Fairy.
Aby

I made the error of assuming -  where I have found a Family Notice in the press referring to the funeral of someone I have been researching, up until this one the funeral cortege have all left their home to the closest cemetery.

[cando]

Surely the newspaper notices, the electoral rolls listings of his children detailed in my post and the place of death at Williamstown all point to this death at Williamstown.  I don't know why you bother with the fiche which can be difficult to read when CD's of the indexes are available.  Aus bdm's available on ancesty.com.au at many public libraries although I would always check with the CD's. 

You are incorrect with the age on the resource you mention. See below.  The other deaths were Brunswick, Prahran and East Melbourne Hospital.

Death reg
GRIFFITHS John
Father Griffiths John  Mother Martha OWENS
At Williamstown 70 years  1902  Reg#16083

I suggest you contact the Melbourne General Cemetery to find the location of his grave as there is no headstone.  Please give all the details regarding his death.  mgc[at]smct.org.au  Perhaps his wife is buried at the same location.

I would suggest that the information on the marriage certificate may be more reliable.

Cheers
Cando

[Douglas Marriner]

Hi

I believe that Louisa Jane Hay Marriner was my great grandfather's sister.

Doug Marriner

[Jamjar]

I know this post is years old, but as it's been resurrected and online resources have so improved I thought I'd have a squizz at Melbourne General online.

John William Griffith   1-12-1902 aged 70: St Kilda Wesleyan compartment B Grave 0371
William John Griffiths  6-5-1886 aged 29: same as above
Jane Griffiths 1906 aged 69: same as above *newspaper says JANET wife of William

There is one Mary in the Wesleyan section:

Mary Ann Griffiths 2-5-1898 aged 50: St Kilda compartment D Grave 189
From BDM: parents Samuel Brown and mother Marion McGuinnen

Mark Griffiths 1907 aged 75: as above

Jamjar

P.S. Greetings, Douglas.

I don't think the John buried here is linking to the family being sought.