Author Topic: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent  (Read 2375 times)

Offline Wallfamily

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GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« on: Saturday 22 September 12 03:05 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I am trying to find the marriage of Lewis Golder/Goulder born 1858 Thanet Kent to Hannah ? born in Deal Kent.   Sometime between 1877 and 1886.  The 1911 census says they had been married for 26 years. I have checked the census for 1881 and cannot locate him.  The only marriage I can find for a Lewis Goulder/Golder is in 1883 to an Elizabeth Ann Evans but I cannot find a birth for this Elizabeth in Deal Kent,  If I can find out Hannah's surname, I may be able to track their children. In the 1891 census I have children born to him, Joseph 1877 born London, Agnes 1881 born Deal Kent, Jessie Born 1883 in Deal Kent but no record of their births under Goulder/Golder. The other child Elsie born 1886 was registered under Golder.

Any help to find out who Lewis Golder/Goulder married and how to find the childrens birth names would be greatly appreciated. ;) 

Thank you

Kris

Offline normamac

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 22 September 12 03:41 BST (UK) »

Hi Chris,

Louis Gould married Hannah Davies.

July- Aug- Sep. 1881

 Reg. Dis.Merthyr Tydfil

 County   Glamorganshire.

Offline casalguidi

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 22 September 12 09:57 BST (UK) »
I've got a feeling this may be who you are looking for:

1881 4 Chapel Street, Deal

Joseph J CORNHILL head mar (age isn't particularly clear) unemployed baker b.Whitstable
Hannah H wife 30 b.Deal
Helen M dau 5 b.Lambeth London
Joseph J son 4 b.City of London
John T? son 1 b.Southwark London
Agnes E dau 2 b.Deal

RG11/997 folio 115 page 19

There are birth registrations for both an Agnes and Jessie in the Eastry district (covers Deal) in the name of CORNHILL.  Elsie being registered as GOLDER in 1886 would fit with them having been together as a couple for 26 years by 1911 wouldn't it?

Casalguidi :)
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline casalguidi

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 22 September 12 11:46 BST (UK) »
I couldn't see Joseph James CORNHILL (born Whitstable) in the census after 1881 but I did see him working as a cook on ships to New South Wales, Australia in 1884 and 1889.  It would appear that he's been on Rootschat before too http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,256508.0.html  :)

Casalguidi :)
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Offline wdurham

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 22 September 12 15:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks, casalguidi for bringing my attention to this. Most welcome!

Wall family - I have a long screed of research info for you, but it's all relevant, so do bear with me...

Joseph James Cornhill was my 1st cousin 4 times removed - my 4th g-grandfather, William Cornhill b 1779 in Oare in Kent, was a serving soldier in the 7th Foot, and had two sons - William Jnr b 1826, from whom I descend, and Joseph b 1825. Both were born in Wokingham. William and Joseph spent most of their youth away from Kent, with their mother Martha in Wokingham, and did not return until about 1840 when their father left the army and returned to his roots in Faversham with wife and two sons, where he promptly died in 1841. (Martha had two daughters as well, whom she left behind in Wokingham, but that's another story!)

Joseph and William were both bakers. Joseph set up shop in Whitstable, William in Oare and Faversham. 

Joseph James was the eldest son of Joseph and his wife Sarah Edenden/Iddenden, and was b about 1848.

He married Hannah Darby in 1868 - and she is almost certainly the lady you are looking for.

Joseph James and Hannah had several children, of whom John T was the last to be positively identified (via the census), b 1880 in Southwark. John T appears to have died in qe Sept 1883. However in qe March 1883 a Jessie Cornhill was born, who may have also been the child of Joseph James and Hannah. I have never sent for certificates to establish the child's father, but it looks probable.

Joseph James also had a brother, named Wallace. Wallace was also a baker and was living in London with wife Sarah Ellen nee Strong and 7mth old daughter Sarah in 1881. He returned to Kent, and in 1882 Wallace William was born - Wallace Jnr died in qe Dec 1883 in Medway district. Sarah his mother died shortly afterwards in qe Sep 1884 in Medway district.

Following these infant deaths and the death of Wallace's wife, both brothers disappear from England altogether, never to be seen again in the census or BMDs.

Joseph James's wife Hannah Cornhill (nee Darby) moved in with Lewis Golder and was living as his wife in 1891 and subsequent census returns. This can be positively established by the first names of the children listed as Golders that were actually Cornhills.  I have never found a marriage, and still can't.

The child Ellen aged 4 and born in Herne Bay shown in the 1891 return is a problem child. An Ellen Cornhill was registered in Medway in 1886. An Elsie Golder was registered in Blean in 1886. In 1891 she is listed as Ellen b Herne Bay. In 1901 she is listed as Elsie b Herne Bay. So which one was she - Ellen Cornhill or Elsie Golder? Not sure it actually matters, to be honest!

The fact is that Joseph James Cornhill left his wife and children and went to Australia with his brother Wallace, probably in 1884. I have found no definite records of their emigration/immigration. But the subsequent records in NSW of the re-marriage of Joseph James (who declared himself a baker on the marriage cert) to Ada Roope/Rope in 1891 in Mudgee, NSW, and the records of his descendants, seem to indicate that he invoked the 7-year rule to declare himself free to marry, having already fathered at least three children with Ada. Wallace didn't remarry and appears to have died in 1902 in Gunnedah, NSW.

Joseph James's wife - Hannah Cornhill nee Darby - spent the rest of her life living with Lewis Golder as his wife, and bore him at least one child - Ellen/Elsie, born in 1886, long after Joseph James and Wallace had absconded.

Hannah Darby appears to have been the daughter of Edward (D?) Darby, a baker in Deal b about 1816, and his wife Mary (?) - see the 1861 census. She appears aged 10. At that time Edward and Mary had a 20 year old daughter so may have been married before 1841.  All the family born in Deal.

Mistranscribed in 1851 as Edward Danby, baker employing 1 man in Deal - but there's Hannah at 7 months, wife's name confirmed as Mary Ann, and an eldest son aged 12, which pulls the likely marriage back to 1838 or before. Nothing on Free BMD for Darby or Danby and a Mary Ann, unfortunately. So it could have been pre-1837 or just never recorded, as registration was not compulsory during that period.

If you want to work backwards from Hannah, then parish records for Deal would seem to be the next step, to look for a marriage of Edward Darby (or perhaps Danby?) to a Mary Ann.
 






Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney

Offline Wallfamily

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 23 September 12 04:57 BST (UK) »
I sincerely thank you all for the information on Hannah.  Especially wdurham ;D  No wonder I couldn't find her.  My cousin's husband is descended from Agnes and he knew there was a mystery about Agnes as she and her daughter (his grandmother) would not reveal anything about Agnes family history.  I live in Australia and another cousin lives near Mudgee NSW.  So I think visits will be arranged to find family links.

I will get back to you wdurham when I follow up on the Mudgee connection.

Thank you all again.  You are a wonderfull bunch of people :D

Kris

Offline redtonyt

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 23 September 12 08:31 BST (UK) »
Edward Danby DARBY married Mary Anne JARVIS on 14 January 1837 at St Leonard's Church, Deal.  Edward signed his name but Mary Anne gave her mark.

They were both single and said to be of the Parish.  The witnesses were George Petty and Elizabeth Betts.

You can find the basic elements of this marriage on Family Search at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NND3-6JD

For information Joseph James CORNHILL married Hannah DARBY at the Church of St Gregory in Canterbury on 15 November 1868.

Regards,
Tony

Offline wdurham

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 23 September 12 09:02 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Tony!  Joseph James is only one of my sideshoots, but it's nice to have complete info!
Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney

Offline redtonyt

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Re: GOLDER,Lewis born 1858 Thanet Kent
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 23 September 12 09:29 BST (UK) »
Hannah's birth was registered in the Dec Quarter of 1850 in Eastry District 5/135.

She was, in fact, registered as Hannah Hunter DARBY and was baptised under this name as well.  The date of baptism was 25 October 1850 again in St Leonard's Church, Deal.  Parents were Mary Ann and Edward Danby DARBY and he was a Baker and their residence was Water Street, Deal.

I have access to the Parish Registers so if I can be of any more help just post etc.

As an aside my parents had a shop on the High Street at Deal opposite the end of Water Street and another snippet regarding Faversham I was at the GS there many years ago.  :D

Best regards,
Tony