(Richard) Keegans of North King Street

[eadaoin]

I'm struggling a bit as the 1864 and 1866 deaths should have been registered, but I can't find references for them on FamilySearch.  The rest are earlier so I'm at a loss how to cross-reference them.

I suppose newspapers are your best bet?

eadaoin

[DudleyWinchurch]

Thanks for the advice again Eadaoin,

Nothing in the Irish Times and my guess is that, unless there were unusual circumstances to the deaths or the family was well known, deaths of two young children and one young man would not have warranted anything in the papers at that time.

Were there local papers for central Dublin that might report smaller items?

[shanew147]

not much online in terms of local papers...

I'd try Freeman's Journal. It was a National Paper, but based in Dublin and started publishing in the 1700s. Many years are available on the IrishNewsArchive subscription website.

I have looked at quite a few editions of this on Microfilm and the earlier editions do not have very many entries in the 'Hatches, Matches & Despatches' sections - I suspect many people didn't have money to spare to place these notices.


Shane

[DudleyWinchurch]

Still searching for Richard Keegans from Dublin (or possibly Bray).

Shane, I looked for information about the Freeman's Journal but the archives site that I found suggested that the period including 1854 was not yet available.  Do you know if that has now been rectified?

I am pretty sure that my direct ancestors were a Richard Keegan and his wife Charlotte Pearson who would have been married by 1847, or before.  Can anyone find this marriage, possibly in Dublin or could have been Bray or elsewhere? There is evidence that the family is in Dublin by 1852, if not before but I have found no baptisms, although the family was catholic and appear to have had several children. Perhaps they were in St Paul's, Arran Quay, Parish but I have so far been unable to locate records there for them (after a search at the National Library).

Charlotte died early in 1854 at the age of 43.

Also in June 1854, a Richard Keegan married a Henrietta Kavanagh at St Catherine (RC), Dublin, with witnesses, Edward Doran & Susan Keogh.  Could this have been the same Richard Keegan or can anyone else eliminate them from my search?  Unfortunately no addresses or parents names available.  I cannot find any baptisms for children of this couple but they do appear to have had at least two children registered in 1864 & 1866, after which they disappear!  One of the infant Richard Keegans who shares a grave with Charlotte could possibly belong to this couple.

I have been searching unsuccessfully for emigrations as neither a Richard, old enough to have had a child around 1847, nor a Henrietta Keegan appear to have died in Ireland and no Henrietta Keegan appears to have remarried there.  I have also been unable to trace her on the BMDs for England & Wales.

Any suggestion for further resources to try to solve this puzzle?

[shanew147]

....
Shane, I looked for information about the Freeman's Journal but the archives site that I found suggested that the period including 1854 was not yet available.  Do you know if that has now been rectified?
....
Can anyone find this marriage, possibly in Dublin or could have been Bray or elsewhere?
...

I picked up a note at their stand at the Back to the Past show, with dates etc but cannot find it at the moment... I do remember them saying that they are continuously scanning and adding new data. I think you can do a free 'cover' search without joining - might be possible to use this the verify the dates they have.

I did a search for an 1850s article last time I joined and there were definitely some newspapers available for that decade at that stage.

I think the newspaper may be a bit of a long shot if Richard was a labourer - it's usually slightly better off families that place notices in papers, so may only be something to find if there was some 'newsworthy' event or court case..

Re the marriage, you would need to have some idea of where this may have taken place to do a search, and check if records exist and are available online or elsewhere - if Bray or South Co. Dublin are possibilities then the place to check is RootsIreland (pay-website).

Some of the south county Dublin RC parishes are on IrishGenealogy - e.g. Sandyford, Rathfarnham etc

p.s. are you sure your Pearsons were RC ?
They vast majority on the 1901 census are non-Catholic - mostly  CofI & Presbyterian, but also CofE and Methodist


Shane

[DudleyWinchurch]

Re the marriage, you would need to have some idea of where this may have taken place to do a search, and check if records exist and are available online or elsewhere - if Bray or South Co. Dublin are possibilities then the place to check is RootsIreland (pay-website).

Some of the south county Dublin RC parishes are on IrishGenealogy - e.g. Sandyford, Rathfarnham etc

p.s. are you sure your Pearsons were RC ?
They vast majority on the 1901 census are non-Catholic - mostly  CofI & Presbyterian, but also CofE and Methodist

Shane

Good questions Shane.
My evidence for them being RC is from several sources.  First, my GGgrandmother, Bridget, known to be daughter of a Richard Keegan and believed to be the daughter of Richard & Charlotte married someone who was CoI and they were married in the Register Office - I had assumed that this was because it was a "mixed" marriage but could be wrong. 

However, several years later an Anna Keegan, then living at the same address as Bridget, married a John Walsh in a catholic church.  She gave her parents names as Richard Keegan and Charlotte Pearson (from which I deduced them likely to be Bridget's parents too, although by then both were deceased).

Also the Richard Keegan & Henrietta Kavanagh who married at St Catherine's (RC) seem to be the most likely couple to be the parents of one of the infant Richards buried in the same grave as Charlotte.  Whether he is indeed the same Richard as Bridget's father or perhaps his son, this supports the likelihood that the family was catholic.

The ages of the infants buried with Charlotte indicate that the family must have been in Dublin from 1852 at the latest to at least 1866 and had several children in that time whose baptisms are not on the irishgenealogy site.  This includes at least two births to Richard & Henrietta recorded on the FamilySearch site (IGI entries and Registration indexes). 

As the burial addresses at Glasnevin, indicate North King Street and North Brunswick Street, I would think this is a bit far for St Paul's, Arran Quay, to be their local Parish.  Are there any other "missing" parishes in that area of the city, which might be more likely?

I should note here that my "unsuccessful" searches of St Paul's registers on my last visit to Dublin included not finding some entries for which I had been given exact dates, on the pages that matched those dates, and also not refinding (for printing) one entry that I had previously found and noted details of.  After coming away, I surmised that there may be multiple registers for that parish covering the same dates on different films, so need to go back and try again on my next Dublin visit!

[shanew147]

....
As the burial addresses at Glasnevin, indicate North King Street and North Brunswick Street, I would think this is a bit far for St Paul's, Arran Quay, to be their local Parish.  Are there any other "missing" parishes in that area of the city, which might be more likely?
...

All depends on the dates ..in the 1840s and 50s in addition to St. Paul's the RC parish in this area would be St. Michan's.

Next nearest parish in the city to the east was St. Mary's. To the west would have been Co. Dublin.


S.

[DudleyWinchurch]

Thanks Shane.

It's looking like it will definitely have to wait for my next Dublin trip to pick up the certs and research the registers to try to sort out this puzzle.

I'm a bit surprised that there don't seem to be any death registrations matching the 1864 and 1866 Glasnevin burials though.  Did it take a while before people complied with the requirement to register or is it more likely that the index refs are just missing from the FamilySearch site?

[shanew147]

....
As the burial addresses at Glasnevin, indicate North King Street and North Brunswick Street, I would think this is a bit far for St Paul's, Arran Quay, to be their local Parish.
...

about 500m from North Brunswick Street St. Paul's - so quite close, even closer for North King Street.

.....
I'm a bit surprised that there don't seem to be any death registrations matching the 1864 and 1866 Glasnevin burials though.  Did it take a while before people complied with the requirement to register or is it more likely that the index refs are just missing from the FamilySearch site?

Many births managed to skip registration in the early years, but would have thought it would be more difficult to miss a death registration, especially if a non-Church cemetery like Glasnevin was involved.
 
I'm not aware of any major gaps for Dublin City records in the FamilySearch indexes at this time. e.g. you can do a generic search by district and see reasonable results for Dublin North - e.g. about 3,118 deaths in 1864, 3,510 in 1865, 3,825 in 1866, 3,645 in 1867 and 3,283 in 1868.

Are you certain the deaths actually took place at those addresses, or could these just have been 'usual place of residence' ?

Many of the problem deaths that I've searched for turned up in an unexpected area, misrecorded name, or 'inaccurate' age...


S.