Walter Thomas

[aussienl]

For the last ten years I have been searching on and off for the parents of Walter Thomas, born 1865.
I have found Walter in various census's and his place of birth is given as Llanelly Carmarthenshire.
However he has had various nicknames as well, indicating his was in Pembrey also.
With my research I have continually come up with the name Beynon, particularly Walter Beynon who has a walter thomas as his grandson and another Thomas as his adopted son.
Walter Beynon was married to a Margaret is there anyone researching Beynon family tree that has this connection as well? Or is this just plain coincidence
It makes it harder as no family members have any information over walter's parents/family as he would never talk about them
Thanks in advance 

[osprey]

could you give details of the census entries you have for him? Or the refs? There are at least 2 Walter Thomases born 1865 in the Llanelli area.

Where and who did he marry? He might not have spoken about his family, but details of his father should be on his marriage cert.

Are these his marriage registrations?
Walter Thomas march qtr 1881 Llanelly vol 11a pg 952 with Jane Lewis on the same page
Walter Thomas june qtr 1893 Llanelly vol 11a pg 1314 with Mary Jane Oliver on the same page

The Walter Beynon married to Margaret has a stepson called David Thomas, which makes this look a likely marriage

Walter Beynon june qtr 1855 Llanelly vol 11a pg 774 with Margaret Thomas on the same page

and this a possible for Walter's first marriage
Walter Beynon march qtr 1838 Llanelly vol 26 pg 613 with Elizabeth Williams on the same page
death registered of Elizabeth Beynon in march qtr 1855

Walter's marriage certificate to Margaret should help to find her previous marriage and then any children born to that marriage, one of whom could be the parent of Walter. I've not found any of these marriages in the available parish marriages, so it could be that the families were non-conformist.

[aussienl]

Hi Osprey,
here is some details for you that I know off first

Walter was married twice, the first marriage was with a Mary or Margaret/jane and they lived apparently in marine terrace llanelly.
Second wife was a edmunds or oliver, she was the only daughter of a couple who owned two shops, one shop  was a tobbaconist/ sweet shop on old castle? road Llanelly.  The other we dont know where that was. Her parents disowned her as she married Walter who was a widower with children and they left all they had to thier adopted daughter.
with his second marriage they lived in inkerman street.
He stated in the 1911 census that he had 8 children, 6 living. Nothing is known about this either.
On the census he states he was born in Llanelly, we are not 100% sure this is true, as he was also known as " watt pembrey.... maybe he was born in Llanelly then moved to Pembrey as a young child as the story in the family is that his parents where divorced and he was raised by his grandparents. ( this of course is just the story my dad heard as a child)
The beynon name pops up all the time for me, once again not sure if this is the right way I am going or not.
Thank you for your post! Much appreciated.
Walter Thomas has had me stumped for years I would LOVE to find out about him!
( I will check the ref for the census for you and post)

[aussienl]

1911 census

5 upper inkerman street
llanelly

rg  number RG14
ref number RG14PN32856 RG78PN1876 RD596 SD3 ED11 SN141


1891 census

15 marine street
Llanelly,Borough

piece 4493
folio 82
page 3

[osprey]

so, you've been looking for him for years, but don't have either of his marriage certs.   

You need to buy one a copy of one or both of his marriage certs to see who he gives as his father and what his father's occupation was. Have you tried to get a copy of his birth cert? I'd be very surprised if there had a been a divorce. He was born c. 1865 and civil divorce only started in 1858.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/divorce-further-research.htm#19787

Pembrey is only the next parish, so we're not talking great distances here

http://www.llanegwad-carmarthen.co.uk/carmarthenshireparishesmap.htm

[osprey]

Mary Jane Oliver does look to be an only daughter of David & Margaret, but her father was a puddler - 1881 RG11/5373 folio 94 pg 4. 1891 has her as servant to a grocer, RG12/4494 folio 111 pg 6

[aussienl]

To be honest I never really thought of his marriage certificates Geesh no wonder I have been puddling around in the dark for years!!!  but I was also thought I needed the wives maiden names for that.
I have also never tried for his birth certificate seeing as though I was never 100% sure where he was born..also Walter Thomas is such a unusual name...   
Was it mandatory for the fathers name to be filled in on marriage certificates?
Thank you for all your information, I will bite the bullet and order the marriage certificates! See how that pans out
Thank you again !!
** out of curiousity, what was a puddler??** I will look into David and Margaret and see if they had a adopted daughter. I use family search a lot too, sometimes I find a fair bit of free information on there.

[osprey]

no, all you need is one of the spouses and the GRO reference. Don't order from anywhere other than the GRO if outside the UK, so order from here, no postage to pay and standard rate for certs.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The father's name is not mandatory on the cert, the system is informant driven, so info only as good as the knowledge of the person giving it.
Actually, there are only 2 likely birth registrations for Walter. The birth had to be registered where it took place, so whether it was Llanelli itself or Pembrey, it would still be the Llanelly registration distrct. (spelling of Llanelli changed in the 1970s, so registration district was spelled with a y, but you now see it ending in i). But, it could be that the birth wasn't registered, not compulsory until the 1870s.

Walter Thomas dec qtr 1864 Llanelly vol 11a pg 558
Walter Thomas march qtr 1865 Llanelly vol 11a pg 621
but there is another Walter of around the same page, father Edward, so I would suggest ordering from the registrars, but I realise this may be difficult, as you would have to phone to give a card number.

There's an explanation of puddling here
http://www.kidwellyhistory.co.uk/Industry/TinWorks.htm

http://www.sirhowy.com/puddler.html
http://www.carmarthenshire.gov.uk/english/living/registrars/pages/familyhistory.aspx

[aussienl]

thank you so much for that information over the ordering of certificates. I will definitley order through there.
I will give my aunty a ring in llanelli and see if she can remember what month his birthday was in. That may narrow it down even. Although she is now 82 and confuses the months and dates with both of her grandfathers....( they where both walters)
thanks for the puddling information! That will be interestiing to read! especially since nearly all of my distant relatives worked in the steel mill there!