My Gt Grandmother doest exist until she's 28!

[Derbysderek]

Hello everybody.direct from the Brimington Parish records:-

EMMA LEADER..father James Neale (Coal miner) married GEORGE FREDERICK RICE (Blacksmith) at Brimington 25.12.1895.........

This is the only link in the Brimngton records of any of the people you name.

Emma may have been born there but was not baptised there..neither did she marry George Leader there.

As a matter of interest JAMES NEIL father Luke...16.01.1820..a miner....

Brimington was.is indeed in Chestrfield Civil registration District..which covers a wide area......
There is EMMA NEALE born Ashbourne District JAS 1865..........but as far as i can see..no birth in Chesterfield District

The Civil registration for her marriage to George Thomas Rice gives her age as 33

and the Civil registration  in AMJ 1888 is for a marriage of Emma Neale to WILLIAM leader..........and..just to cause more trouble!! if you look on the 1871 Census Emma Neale 1863 Chesterfield has a totally different set of parents!!........George and Mary Ann..and since emma was certainly not baptised at Brimington..it has to be worth considering........you're going to have to purchase a birth certificate methinks!!

Derek.

[bobo66]

Thank you for the search of the Parish records Derek.

Emma Leadre who Married William Leader is my Gt Grandmother, as my Grandmothers maiden name was Leader, and all the siblings are correct for that family. Do you know if Emma was another form of the name Sarah or vice-versa?

Regards, Derek

[spendlove]

Hi,

Just to add more confusion:-

1871 26 Auklands Yard, Beetwell? Street, Chesterfield RG10/3609 F. 124 Pg 19

Emma Neale age 8 (1863) scholar born Chesterfield  dau of George Neale and Mary Ann.

This may be a clue as her first child was named George.

Spendlove

[bobo66]

Thank you Spendlove,
The Dates fit fine, and I agree about the name of George, who it appears was born out of wedlock. The only difference is the fathers name which is given as James Neale at her Wedding with George Rice. I am trying to get Emmas Birth cert, but cannot determine where she was born, and cannot ind any registration anywhere for an Emma Neale which ties in with her suggested birth date, which is detailed on her death cert in 1957 as being 95, and her married details on both occasions. Was her birth ever registered I wonder?

[MargP]

Hi

Who his Emma's father on the marriage to William Leader

Margp

[bobo66]

Hi margP, the fathers name is James on the marriage to William Leader

[MargP]

Hi

A long shot

Do you have the birth certificate for George Neale, this may give some clues ie address the informant my be a relative, also who were the witnesses on both of Emma's marriages

Margp

[crisane]

There's a birth March 1862, Chesterfield 7b, 511
Emma Neil

 A year out  .....................

I would be considering this birth certifcate. If nothing else it will rule her out of the equation.
In the 1881 census there are 2 Emma Neal
The one born Brimington and a servant has a birth date c1861 (yours), the other is the daughter of George and Mary A, born c1863 born Chesterfield.

There are two marriages for an Emma Neale, 1881 - 1891. Your emma to William Leader June 1/4 1888 and the other June 1.4 1885. Possible spouses Henry Cooke and John Holian. Could this be George and Mary A's daughter?  The other bride on this page is a Mary Ann Neale. (Goerge and mary A neal have a dau Mary A born c1856.
Added: Emma Neale born 1863 appears to have married Henry Cooke according to the 1891 census. RG12/2761/43/15

Just getting my head back around this again.

[crisane]

There is a tree on ancestry that has this family in Brimington. They have the census records for 1861 and 1871 with Emma being  Emma Sarah Neal and showing as Sarah in 1861/71 then becoming Emma in 1881 as the servant with the Robinson family. Hwever they do not shiow a birth record for Emma Sarah born c1860. They do have the marriages to Leader and Rice.
1861 RG 9 piece 2531 folio 66 page41
Back Street Brimington
James Neal 41 ?stone miner Chesterfield
Eliza Neal (nee Else) 34 Chesterfield
Lupe Neal 13
Ann Neal 9
Jacob Neal 6
Elizabeth Neal 4
Sarah Neal 1
All children born Brimington.

James dies in 1878 and Eliza is with dau eliza 12 in brimington in 1881. However in 1891 she is in Yorkshire with eliza and son-in-law John Gibbs. By 1891 she is back in Derbyshire with dau harriet and son-in-law George Hynes and in 1901. She dies ag 75 In June 1/4 of that year.

Where they get confirmation of a birth for an Emma Sarah Neal I don't know.