Roberts + Welsh Llanhilleth

[Claire-M]

Hi I'm looking for any information about my great grandfather Robert Roberts born 1890 in Llanhilleth. His parents were Elizabeth Hannah Holloway and Thomas Roberts. He had 4 brothers, Lewis(Lou), William, George and Ernest (Ernie). And two other siblings who were possibly half or step siblings, Thomas and Annie Smith (Annie was most likely known as Roberts). The 1911 census lists another child living in the home a William Thomas Roberts, 9 years old possibly born 1902. He's listed as a grandson to Thomas and Elizabeth but his parents are not mentioned.

Robert lived in Llanhilleth his whole life until his death in 1959 when he was 69 years old. Growing up he lived in and around the Royal Oak. I believe he was living in 3 Royal Oak in 1915. He was a coal miner his whole life, though I'm not sure which pit he worked in.
Towards the end of his life I think he was living up 'the rows' with his daughter Lilian and her children.

He married a Catherine Welsh (often known as Kathleen). She was born in 1897 in Golynos Talywain, Abersychan.
Her parents were Ellen Christopher and Thomas Welsh, both from Ireland. Catherine had 6 siblings, John(Jack), James(possibly known as Jim or Jimmy), Richard (Dick), Thomas, William and Johanna (possibly Hannah or Anna).
Catherine lived in Abersychan most of her life. Her mother Ellen died in 1904 and her father in 1916.
 Catherine/Kathleen died in 1953 aged 56.

Catherine and Robert had four children William Thomas Roberts (Billy). Eileen, Lilian Doreen and Hannah May (May). Eileen married Alf Padmore, Billy married a Ruth and May married a Bill (William) Parry. These children were all born in Llanhilleth between the years 1916 and 1924.


Also Raymond Welsh, who was possibly a cousin of Lilian, Billy, May and Eileen, married a Mary. His sister may have been Mary Ann Welsh who never married. There is also an Alice Welsh mentioned in the family, who may have been a Welsh by marriage not birth, but I'm unable to find her or where she links to the tree, along with Mary Ann and Raymond.

If anyone recognises any of these names I would love to hear from you, so please get in touch.
Thank you.

[dragongirl]

Hi Claire
Thomas Roberts was born in Maesteg Glam and spoke Welsh and English according to the Census his wife Hannah was born in Bristol, According to the Census Thomas and Annie were his stepchildren  but I can`t find another marriage for
Hannah to a Smith 11 years previous . William Thomas born in 1902 could have been one of the son`s children. Thomas was  a  underground Haulier and  they lived at 51 Prices Houses  LLanhilleth
.
On 1911 Census Robert was 19yrs old living at 31 Andrews Terrace with the family and was employed as a Rider on Top Pit
When he was 24yrs old he lived at 3 Royal Oak llanhilleth
 He was serving in the S.Wales Borders in 1915 service No
26419, on short term Service probably ending 1920 by the dates  Hope this helps a little with your search

 Dragongirl
only one sheet to record

[Claire-M]

Thank you. I've seen the census records for Robert and his father.
I also thought it was possible for William Thomas to have been one of the sons children but even the oldest Roberts child Lewis would have only been 13/14 when William was born so it's unlikely. The step children Annie and Thomas are both gone by the 1911 census. I thought maybe he could be Annie's child and that she had either given the baby her step fathers last name or she had become a Roberts herself through adoption. She's listed on the 1901 census as beind Annie Smith but on the transcript someone has corrected her name to Roberts.

A relative of mine remembers Annie and doesn't recall her ever having children, so either he isn't hers or he was illegitamite and she left the home to work away somewhere leaving her child with her mother and step father.

The other option is the step son Thomas but if William was Thomas' son why would he disapear before the 1901 census and why would he give his son his step fathers last name, unless perhaps he was also adopted. The relative I mentioned didn't know that Thomas and Annie were step children until I found the census.

I also struggled when looking for a marriage for Elizabeth Hannah and a Smith. Perhaps she never was married. When searching I found two possibilities. There was a Thomas Smith who married a Hannah Holloway in Jun 1880 in Newport, M. and there was a Alithea Smith who married a Elizabeth Ann in September 1879 in Greenwich, England. The Thomas Smith sounds promising as one of the children is Thomas Smith.

Her full name was Elizabeth Hannah but is it possible it could have been cut short to Hannah on her marriage certificate? Or to Elizabeth Ann? Is there any way to find out how old they would have been when they got married without ordering their marriage certificates?
My Elizabeth Holloway would have been 16 in 1879.

I wanted to try to find William Thomas Roberts birth record so that I could order his birth certificate and find out who his parents are but I haven't been able to find it. espcially as the census doesn't list where he was born.

Thank you for the information regarding the military record. I had found it before but I didn't notice the service number that you mentioned so that's great thank you.
I'm not a full member on ancestry so I can't view all of the records but I printed a copy of the militery record when I was a full member I've just checked it and I think that the number is really difficult to read. The last digit looks like it could be a 9 or a 0. Are you sure it's a 9?

Because if it is a 9 I did a search on the National Archives their Medal Card records and found a Robert Roberts South Wales Borders with the service number 26419. The number you mentioned. It would be to much of a coincidence for there to be two Robert Roberts in the same reginment with almost the same number except for the last digit, so it has to be a 9 right?


Thank you very much for all of the help. Sorry for the huge message.

[dragongirl]

Hi Claire
 I guess your grandfather didnt spend all his life in LLanhilleth!!! The two Army accounts are his the first on11th Feb 1916  at 24 yrs old he joined the Royal Welsh Fusiliers
no 56223, he had a couple of hospital visits with influenza etc and also spent a few weeks time on charge for being Absent without leave.In 1916 his mother sent a telegram to the Regimental Paymaster for details of his whereabouts he was dicharged to 3 Royak Oak ,
He rejoined in 1919  The South Wales Borderes No 26419(his wife Kathleen wrote to say he had influenza and couldn`t rejoin his regiment.)  At this time he was living at 20 Royal oak Llanhilleth     Evidently he married Kathleen Welch  on 24 December 1915 He was on leave at time &  it was days before shipping  out to France. They had a child Eileen B on 1st May 1916
He earned two Medals  B/ think W writing feint and the Victory Medal
 Found Photos of graves at Brynithel Cemetry of Thomas and
 Eliza :)beth Hannah with William James Roberts Another grave stone says Thomas  mother Elizabeth Ann Roberts and  their son William died Aug 1924 aged 34yrs
If you`d like copies P,M me with your address and I`ll post
them to you ofcourse they could be on your Treem
Dragongirl

[Claire-M]

Hi yeah I guess not haha. The only record I managed to find when I was a trail member on ancestry was a short service record 1915 number 26419 that lists his address as 3 Royal Oak and it says that he wasn't married.

Little bit confused, are you saying he signed up in 1916 age 24 to the Royal Welsh Fusiliers no 56223 first? Then was in the South Wales Borders in 1919? He would have been about 26 in 1916.

Thank you for the information about the medals. That's on the Medal card right? So if I ordered a copy that would be listed on it?
That information is so detailed I can't believe it! That's brilliant! Where have you managed to find this info? Do you know if I'd be able to order these records from the Royal British Legion and any idea how much that would cost?

The photos, are they from ancestry on ONIX-1990's tree? if so then yes that is my tree
I'm not sure about the second grave you mentioned with Elizabeth Ann Roberts and son William, not sure who that is. Odd coincidence though haha. Not sure if you mean my e-mail address but I'll PM that to you now

Thank you so much this is a great help.

[dragongirl]

Hi Claire
 Did you get my e.mail?  A few have gone astray this last week, Yes that was the Tree I was looking at on Ancestry.
 Still looking for Family records for you.
 Dragongirl

[Claire-M]

Yes sorry I just saw it now, I had to go offline the other day and I hadn't checked my mail until now. Thank you for all of the help. The photos are probably mine then as you said you saw my tree and I know where the graves are thank you.

Someone has actually e-mailed me all of the military records. I put this post on here and ancestry and someone on there kindly e-mailed them to me, I've been reading through them.
I really appreciate your offer though so thank you very much for all the research you did.  It was because you posted about his service number that I even ended up wiht the records.

Thank you very much.