Ritchie Family, Forgandenny, Perthshire - COMPLETED, thankyou for your help

[bleckie]

Hi Steffani

Had another look at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

1871 DONALDSON MARY   RITCHIE F 80 DOUGLAS /LANARK 

yours aye
BruceL

[ev]

I read somewhere that if children died very young their deaths weren't always recorded.  Is this true.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=r280coq39im3hug1at0uhq62b6&topic=590008.0

ev

[MonicaL]

Hi All 

Steffani, I think Ev was on the right track with deaths for parents being later and outside of Perthshire.

Well I did spot this yesterday and wondered if it could be them , ages a little out and it's after 1877.
1881 7 Ponton Street Edinburgh
John Ritchie 75 labourer born Perth
Mary Ritchie 74 wife born Methven Perth

Scotlandspeople has a Mary Ritchie(other surname Donaldson) death 1885 St George(Edinburgh)
Midlothian , born c1807

ev

I think that 1885 is very likely to be mother Mary's death entry. A daughter, H Breckenrigdge reported her death. A Helen Ritchie married a Robert Breckenridge in 1884 in Edinburgh. Fits very well with daughter Helen born c. 1848... Father John still alive in 1885.

Monica 

[MonicaL]

A little more....

Is this John and Mary in 1871:

John Ritchie 61 labourer b. Perth
Mary Ritchie 60 b. Methven,
William Ritchie 1, cousin b. Dundee

Address: Dunning Road North Dumbuils, Forgandenny

I think young William is their grandson, born to likely daughter Helen - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYT6-TY1

William shows with the Breckenridge family in 1891:

Robert Breckenridge 30, General Dealer or Hawker b. Portsmouth England
Sophia Breckenridge 38 b. Forgandenny, Perths...I think this is Helen, mistranscribed on index. The original would with this.
Sophia Breckenridge 4, daughter b. Edinburgh
William Ritchie 22 boarder, Cellarman (Wine Store), b. Dundee...possible for Helen's son.

Address: 62 Fountainbridge, Edinburgh

There is a death showing in Perthshire for a Helen Breckenridge/Ritchie in 1901 that is likely connected.

Just trying to provide some more substance to those entries in the Midlothian area and the Ritchies showing there....given what Jane put down on her marriage entry!

Monica

[Steffani]

Hi All 

Steffani, I think Ev was on the right track with deaths for parents being later and outside of Perthshire.

Well I did spot this yesterday and wondered if it could be them , ages a little out and it's after 1877.
1881 7 Ponton Street Edinburgh
John Ritchie 75 labourer born Perth
Mary Ritchie 74 wife born Methven Perth

Scotlandspeople has a Mary Ritchie(other surname Donaldson) death 1885 St George(Edinburgh)
Midlothian , born c1807

ev

I think that 1885 is very likely to be mother Mary's death entry. A daughter, H Breckenrigdge reported her death. A Helen Ritchie married a Robert Breckenridge in 1884 in Edinburgh. Fits very well with daughter Helen born c. 1848... Father John still alive in 1885.

Monica 

Hi All

Thanks for all the info.  I think we are on the right track.  After ev's post I widened my dates and was working on Mary dying in the 1880's in Edinburgh, as the 1881 Census info seemed to support the theory that they had moved from Forgandenny.  However after viewing the death cert on Scotland's people I could not work out the name of the daughter,  and was suspicious that maybe this was the daughter Helen.  So I am ever grateful that Monica managed to decipher the name,  Is certainly looking like it matches up with the info I have regarding chistenings etc in Forgandenny. 

I am curious why my 2nd great grandmother Jane would put on her Marriage cert that her parents are deceased???  I guess we will never know.

The exciting thing is, that I now know the parents for Mary,  I had found a Christening record on Family Search for Mary in Methvam,  but only name given was the Fathers,  John.  This also matches with the death certificate and looks like I am on the right track.

In regards to Ann,  Extensive searching on other members of the family reveals that She may not have died in Infancy as I first thought,  I found an entry on the 1851 Census of and Ann born in Forgandenny in 1848 living with an Aunt, in Methvem  and the later in 1871 as a servant in Dunbarney. (which incidentally is the same parish where Helen her twin was living).   

Now to track down the death of John,  going by the info so far  he died sometime after 1885 as Mary 's death Cert says he is still alive.  Haven't spotted him on the 1891 Census (but that's not to say he isn't there).......

Thanks everyone,  I am truely grateful.  It's difficult searching from New Zealand as I often feel geographically challenged and work with a map open to see if these places are close by. 

Steffani

[MonicaL]

Hi Steffani

That is great that we all seem to be pointing the same way 

It can be hard deciphering the geography can't it. However, Scotland has great online historical maps! This, for example, is a good county map www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/

I suppose with Helen's twin Ann, the key thing would be to try to follow through with the Ann you have found, to a marriage or death to see whether you can confirm her parents' details.

In this respect, as in others, Scottish registrations are great in terms of the amount of info included to help you confirm details.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Is this John, father, in 1891?:

Andrew Marshall 46, Brewer's Labourer, b. Dunning Perthshire
Jessie Marshall 49 b. Forgandenny, Perthshire
James Marshall 20
Mary Ann Marshall 18
Thomas Marshall 14
Jessie M W Marshall 12
Andrew Marshall 7
John Ritchie 70, father in law, formerly labourer b. Perth

Address: No 7 Riego St, Edinburgh

Monica

Added: Jessie (name a variant with Janet/Jean/Jane normally) certainly looks to be a daughter I think. She married Andrew Marshall in 1869 in Newington/Midlothian. A Helen Ritchie (sister?) was a witness.

[Steffani]

Is this John, father, in 1891?:

Andrew Marshall 46, Brewer's Labourer, b. Dunning Perthshire
Jessie Marshall 49 b. Forgandenny, Perthshire
James Marshall 20
Mary Ann Marshall 18
Thomas Marshall 14
Jessie M W Marshall 12
Andrew Marshall 7
John Ritchie 70, father in law, formerly labourer b. Perth

Address: No 7 Riego St, Edinburgh

Monica

Ohhh   that gives food for thought. 

I have a Jessie Ritchie Brn in Forgandenny 1843.  (Not sure if this is the same family,  haven't tracked down a christening yet.)  My Rithchie family have a daughter Janet in 1842/3.  ??  haven't worked out if Janet is indeed Jessie.    However Jessie Ritchie has a son John in 1862   No father mentioned on Birth record,  This is according to Family Search and I haven't confirmed it because I am not sure if she is a member of my family.  There seem to be a few Ritchies in the area, and John is a very commen family name,    

Have to go off to childrens school event,  so will check it all out later today and see if I can come up with something.   Certainly is an interesting lead.

Thanks
Steffani

[MonicaL]

This can all wait....you are hours behind and in full throtle of the day (and we all know how it goes!).

For later, I think this all fits well with the family. Janet/Jessie that we are talking about, from 1851:

John Ritchie 39
Mary Ritchie 39
Elisabeth Ritchie 10
Janet Ritchie 8
Mary Ritchie 6
Helen Ritchie 4
John Ritchie 2

Address: E Dunbuils, Forgandenny

A great site for first name variants (which Scots/Irish love in this period in particular) www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Janet.html

Monica