Author Topic: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)  (Read 8544 times)

Offline aitch

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TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« on: Wednesday 14 November 12 09:16 GMT (UK) »
An elderly gentleman (83) has asked me if I can find anything out about his ancestors.  The only thing we know is that his father was Herbert James TEMPLE SMITH, born 1908 in the Bedford district.  I've not come across too many double barreled surnames pre 20thc so don't know if it was once just TEMPLESMITH or not?  I don't have access to records, and Beds is a long way off my own ancestral patch of Staffordshire, but wondered if anyone fancied a challenge/had time/inclination to have a root around for any signs of Herbert or his forebears.  You might make an old chap very happy!! :)
Thanks in anticipation!!
Aitch
RATCLIFFE, BARLOW, BERESFORD, BLOOR, BYATT, DAKIN, KENT, LEES, MORTON, NORCLIFFE, OAKS, OSBORNE, PARKS, RICHARDSON, ROBINSON, SORTON, WETTON, WARRINGTON, WATTS, WOOD, WOLVERSCROFT (all from the Staffordshire Moorlands) - and specific interest in anyone who at any time lived in or around the village of ALTON

Offline AMBLY

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 09:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi Aitch

For our reference : Herbert James Temple-Smith
Birth registered Mar Qtr 1908, Bedford
from: http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

and Death registered Apr 1984 Cambridge, age 76, dob: 12 Feb 1908

I'm seeing other records for Herbert G Temple-Smith and a number of female Temple-Smiths  (ie, possibly their married name).  Do you know the  name of your friend's mother?  Has he mentioned named of any Aunts or Uncles?

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Online tazzie

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 09:56 GMT (UK) »

  His birth is registered under 2 names

 Herbert James Smith
 Herbert  James Temple -Smith

 Tazzie
Liscoe -all
Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds
Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks.
Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London
 Rewallin/Underwood -Devon
 Casbolt-London/Cambridge
 Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds

 This information is Crown Copyright from
   www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline aitch

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 10:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ambly
Thanks for your reply.   I'm afraid he told me very little - I know his mother was Alice BURTON - born 1907 Alton, Staffs (and I know her heritage as she's a side branch of my own), but that's all I have to go on I'm afraid.  His father must have had a reason to end up in Staffordshire but don't know what took him there.  
He told me his father was Herbert and he reckoned born in 1908, so I'd picked up the freeBMD one that you ref. as it seemed the only one around.
Might not be enough to go on - I guess it depends on how rare the surname turns out to be - what do you think??  Friends first name is Kenneth if that's any help.
RATCLIFFE, BARLOW, BERESFORD, BLOOR, BYATT, DAKIN, KENT, LEES, MORTON, NORCLIFFE, OAKS, OSBORNE, PARKS, RICHARDSON, ROBINSON, SORTON, WETTON, WARRINGTON, WATTS, WOOD, WOLVERSCROFT (all from the Staffordshire Moorlands) - and specific interest in anyone who at any time lived in or around the village of ALTON

Offline aitch

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 10:06 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Tazi - interesting as this begs the question as to where the 'Temple' bit fits in  (and also throws us into the mind-boggling world of the Smiths!! - Yikes!!)
RATCLIFFE, BARLOW, BERESFORD, BLOOR, BYATT, DAKIN, KENT, LEES, MORTON, NORCLIFFE, OAKS, OSBORNE, PARKS, RICHARDSON, ROBINSON, SORTON, WETTON, WARRINGTON, WATTS, WOOD, WOLVERSCROFT (all from the Staffordshire Moorlands) - and specific interest in anyone who at any time lived in or around the village of ALTON

Offline AMBLY

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 10:26 GMT (UK) »
I think this is Herbert's mother and older siblings (well, the Herbert who was born 1908 Beds, anyway :) :

1901: 48 Pilcroft Street, Bedford St Mary,
RG13 / Piece: 1492 / Folio: 29 / Pg 0
Wife:  Bessie T SMITH 28, married, Dress Maker, (own Account at home),b Thomaston, USA
Son: Vernon SMITH 10, b Bedford
Son: Vivian SMITH 3, b Wootton, Beds
Dau: Bessie SMITH 2, b New Fenlake, Beds

BIRTH: Vernon Cyril M SALISBURY, Dec Qtr 1890 Bedford
BIRTH: Bessie Audrey TEMPLE-SMITH, Sep Qtr 1898, Bedford

MARRIAGE: Dec Qtr 1895, Ampthill - on the same page.
Bessie Sophia SALISBURY
Alfred Temple SMITH

Then back to 1891:

19 Bakermans Place, Bedford St Mary, Bedfordhshire
RG12 / Piece: 1248 / Folio: 71 / Pg 5
Head: Samuel SALISBURY 41, widower, House Decorator, b Cranfield, Bedfordshire
Dau: Bessie SALISBURY 20, single, b Thomaston, Maine, USA
Dau: Edith SALISBURY 14, b Bedford
Son: Edward SALISBURY 10, b Bedford
Dau: Eva SALISBURY 8, b Bedford
Grandson: Vernon Cyril Miller SALISBURY 5 mths, b (not recorded)

By using the FREELY available 1911 Index on Family Search and searching the individual names, the 1901 family appears to be in Wheathampstead, Hertfordshire 1911 (St Albans), as SMITH.
https://www.familysearch.org/
Bessie is down as born abt 1872 in Augusta, Maine - these days, Augusta Maine is just under an hour's drive from Thomaston Maine (Src: Google maps).  There  is an Alfred SMITH b abt 1872 Southampton, also in Wheathampstead.

You can also try  find them here in 1911 , suggest you perform a search with the relatively uniquely named son, Vivian SMITH as the 'Other Person in Household" in Advanced search:
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx?4

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 10:41 GMT (UK) »
The marriage of the parents (Cheadle, Mar Qtr 1928)  is also recordedin FreeBMD  as:
Herbert J T SMITH & Alice BURTON
and
Herbert J TEMPLE-SMITH & Alice BURTON

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 11:31 GMT (UK) »
Another Rootschatter was asking about the SALISBURY family, back in June 2011:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,537119.0.html

"Bessie Sophia Salisbury born in 1873 Thomaston, Maine, USA.
Her parents were called Samuel Sailsbury and Emma Dockham
She married in 1895 to Alfred Graham Smith (Who took on his christian name, and changed it to Temple-Smith).

She had 6 Children, 1 was already born, called Vernon Cyril Mellus Salisbury, born 1890 in Bedford, England, Britian. (Father is unknown)

then 5 others with Alfred called, Raymond Geoffrey Temple-Smith, Vivian Temple-Smith, Bessie Audrey Temple-Smith, Walter Temple-Smith, and Herbert James Temple-Smith"


I don't quite get what it means by " to Alfred Graham Smith (Who took on his christian name, and changed it to Temple-Smith)" though!

Also a topic on the SMITH side by same Roostchatter, here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,537122.0.html

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: TEMPLE-SMITH look ups please :)
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 14 November 12 12:38 GMT (UK) »
So a look  for Alfred Graham SMITH born abt 1872, Southampton:

BIRTH:
Alfred Graham SMITH, Mar Qtr 1873, Southampton

Think this is he:
CENSUS 1881: Bath Rd 1 Norman Villas, Heston, Middlesex
RG11 / Piece: 1339 / Folio: 113 / Page:16
Head: James I SMITH 36, Munic. Sanitery & Petroleum?  Inspector, School Board Officer, Local Board, Heston & Islworth,  b Middlesex, London
Wife: Esther E SMITH 28, b Southampton, Hants
Son: James E P SMITH 10, b Southampton
Son: Alfred G T SMITH 8, b Southampton
Dau: Esther E SMITH 5, b Oxford
Dau: Alice M SMITH 3, b Croydon
Son: Walter T SMITH 5mths, b Hounslow

MARRIAGE of the parents:
Mar Qtr 1870 Southampton: Same page (but she is  indexed as Vol 2c, page -)
James Isaac SMITH
Esther Elizabeth GRIFFITH

BAPTISM of youngest son (per 1881 Census):
27 Jun 1880, Hounslow Holy Trinity, Middlesex
Walter Tapp SMITH, parents: James Isaac SMITH, Sanitary Inspector and Esther Elizabeth SMITH.

If we take James Isaac SMITH back, in his 1851 Census as a child, up pops a brother with Temple as middle name

1851:  At 11  Southampton Street, Clerkenwell Middlesex
HO107 /  Piece: 1518 / Folio: 222 / Page: 15
Head: Isaac SMITH 36, Coach Maker, b Oxford
Wife: Mary SMITH 22, b Bloomsbury St Giles
Son: James Isaac SMITH 5, b St Anns Westminster
Son: Alf'd Temple SMITH 4, b St Anns, Westminster
Dau: Mary Ann SMITH 2, b Clerkenwell
Dau; Sarah Eliz'th SMITH, 7 mths, b Clerkenwell
Plus a servant


Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)