Jane Hale/s

[kasden]

Iam looking for the birth and hopefully the marriage of my 3X gr grandmother Jane Hale/s.
Can any assist?..Iam afraid that I don't have an exact year of birth,nor do I have her parents names.....all I can say is that she was most likely born between 1806 and 1830...I do know that she married a Robert Findley and had a son also called Robert but again I don't have exact dates..her son Robert was most likely born between 1845-1855..I am sorry to be so vague but this branch of my family is an extremely difficult one to trace...Jane perhaps was born in ?Navestock?
Hope that there is some clever clogs out there that can make sense of this most frustrating line.
Cheers
Kasden
Sydney Australia

[keyboard86]

Hi Kasden, just to see if this is your Jane who does not appear with a son Robert on either 1851/61:-

Robert FINDLAY 38 occ Engine Fitter b Scotland
Jane 45 b Navestock, Essex
Elizabeth Wood 9 Visitor b Romford
Residing at 13, Stevenson Street, West Ham, Essex
Census Ref HO107/1768/487/4

In 1861 still married but now aged 58 b Stapleford (Stapleford Abbotts or Stapleford Tawney both fit nearby locations to Navestock)
Mary Wood 50 Sister/cannot quite work out if widowed born Stapleford
Census ref RG09/1057/125/4

1871 74?? Married b Navestock
Census Ref RG10/1628/46/30
Keyboard86

[Scrabble]

No HALEs at all baptised in Navestock around that time, I have transcribed all of Navestock baps and they are on FreeReg. That is not an absolute guarantee of course as there are always a few that are unreadable or I could have missed one! No marriages in Navestock either.

A possible could be Susannah Jane HAYLE baptised at Stondon Massey (not far from Navestock) 31 May 1818 parents John and Jane. John's occupation Farmer.

However shouldn't we be establishing Robert Findlay junior's birth first? Can't find any born Essex in the timespan. There is one born in Medway (that would be Chatham, Kent area) registered Sep 1854. The registers for that area are online at "Medway Ancestors" and from experience I'd say that St Mary's Chatham would be the register to start with. That's if you think it is a possibility.

Scrabble

[JaneyCanuck]

It would really help if we could start with what you do know (that we don't).

Are you descended from Robert the son? Who was his wife, and what child is your ancestor? (Or did he not marry/have children in England?)

Is there any findable record that might name his parent(s)? -- marriage certificate in England or Australia, death certificate in Australia ...? Or -- is that where the name Jane Hale has come from?

I'm wondering whether he was a son of Jane's from before her marriage to Robert Findlay (if there was a marriage). Robert Sr seems to have been considerably younger than her, and by 1851 she might have had a son who had already left home.

Since her sister was Mary Wood (I'm sure it says "Mar" for Mary Wood in 1861), the Elizabeth Wood visitor in the 1851 household was likely Jane's niece. Her birthplace was given as Romford. That could match a birth registered in June quarter 1842 in Romford. The birth certificate, if Mary was the mother, would give Mary's birth surname, which would presumably be Jane's as well. I wonder whether the sister is Mary Wood with husband John in Stapleford Tawney in 1841. Likely not, as she is also there in 1851 (and 1861), unless she was double-enumerated in 1951, which is possible.

There just was no Robert Findle/ay marriage in Essex before 1901. Either he and Jane married somewhere else, or they weren't married, I'd say. I don't imagine it's likely that she married and had a child in Scotland ...

Jane Findlay had the bad manners to die the year before age at death was recorded in the GRO index: December quarter 1865, in West Ham -  that would seem to be her death, in any event.

I'd get hold of that death certificate to see whether it holds any clues.

There is no corresponding death for a Robert Findla/ey in Essex, or anywhere else in England that I can see.

[kasden]

What I do know ?..well I wish I did know more !!...all the information I have is from Robert Findley(the son) Australian marriage certificate.He married Florence Rhoda Orpwood in Qld in December 1873 and gave his parents names as Robert Findley and Jane Hale/s.He stated that he was born in Scotland but numerous searches there have shown no record of either his birth nor his parents marriage there.His father,according to further information on Robert Jnrs marriage certificate,was a "sailor".
Robert Jnr's wife ,Florence Rhoda Orpwood's family came from England but her family also used the name Harper and she was baptised Rhoda Harper but came to Australia in June 1873,with her sister Susan, as Florence Orpwood.
It was a family theory that her father and Roberts father knew each other back in England and arranged for her to come here to marry Robert jnr.
Robert Jnr's life prior to arriving here is a complete mystery I can't locate a thing about either his mother or father apart from their names on his marriage certificate,,,that's all I know about te snr Findley and his wife Jane Hale/s...rather pitiful isn't it?
Kasden
P.S It seemed that Robert Jnr was something of a black sheep and was sent away to Australia by his family as a remittance man..i.e he was paid by them to stay away...an interesting,if somewhat mysterious family to say the least.

[JaneyCanuck]

More little things you know that we don't, though ...

Rhoda's father / place of birth / age at marriage or age when she emigrated?

Just her father's name would help to find the rest, e.g. from censuses - or if you already have them in censuses, ?

This could help, for figuring out whether the families were likely acquainted in England.

How do you feel about the census households posted by keyboard86? They seem to be the only ones available!

And about getting Jane's death certificate? It would have an address and the name of an informant of death on it and hopefully some identifying informatin about her, like age or name of husband -- worst luck would be if it were a doctor, but good luck would be if it were a close family member.

[keyboard86]

Hi re the death of Jane in 1865, in my initial post their is a Jane Findlay aged 74? in 1871 living in Stephenson Street, West Ham b (What looks like Navestock) but I could not locate a positive/possible death? Stephenson Street, was both the 1851/61 address for her?

Keyboard86

[JaneyCanuck]

Is this them in 1861 in Watlington, Oxfordshire?

Edmund Harper, cordwainer (master, employing 1 man), 36, born Buckinghamshire
Rhoda, 36
Jane, 15
Elijah, 14
Matilda, 11
> Susan, 8
> Rhoda, 6
Charles, 3
Lavina 1

Oops, crossed in the post -- your 1871 Jane in West Ham looks best of course!

[JaneyCanuck]

I think this is her death then:

Jane FENLEY, aged 77, West Ham, March quarter 1874, 4a 35