Author Topic: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?  (Read 2207 times)

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« on: Monday 03 December 12 16:00 GMT (UK) »
A person who may have been an ancestor of mine is recorded as having been
"found drowned at Water Gate in returning from Truro" in Jan 1798.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=960399

- edit - So I shouldn't say "Water Gate, Lamorran" -- it was somewhere between Truro and Lamorran, presumably.


Whatever /wherever Water Gate was, it doesn't seem to exist now. I found this reference to it:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=021-qs_6&cid=1-2-17#1-2-17

Sessions held at Bodmin  QS/1/12/453-473  6th January 1835
"Application concerning order made at special sessions held in Town Hall, Truro on 4 Dec. last for a highway in St. Michael Penkivel, 1,245 yds. long, from a point near the church to a point near Water Gate in Lamorran, to be diverted through land of Rt. Hon. Edward, Earl of Falmouth. [Description of diversion]: order enrolled. QS/1/12/462"

On the map, St Michael Penkivel seems to be about a mile west of Lamorran (1,245 yards seems about right), and east of Kea. Lamorran doesn't really seem to be an actual place, i.e. with streets and houses, just a point on the map.


Other than that, and a web page belonging to someone who seems to descend from the drowned person's husband and his second wife, which refers to the drowning, nada on the net.


In censuses, Water Gate is given as an address in Kea.

Presumably she was travelling by foot from Truro to Lamorran, about 5 miles from what I can tell, but it would seem to have been well out of the way to go via Kea. She would have had to cross some sort of waterway to get to Truro, but I would have thought it would be done northwest of St Michael Penkivel, like around where Queenie Wood is marked on the modern map, as the crow flies -- but I have no idea what kind of waterway these are and how one crossed them.

On Google maps / street view for Lamorran, I found the Keeper's Cottage (aka Manor Cottage, depending on magnification level) at the bend in the very pretty leafy road, and very near it a church (St Moran's Church?). Google always seems to show me dry sandy stream beds where I assume there once was or sometimes is water, which is the case for the location of the Keeper's Cottage now. Does "Keeper" indicate there was a lock? or was it a gamekeeper ... Aha, the 1841 census has a Jeremiah Wright, game keeper, at Tregenna, Lamorran, so likely that.


Would anyone know what or where Water Gate might have been, that someone would have drowned there?

(The verdict was accidental death, but given what her husband seems to have been like, from two bastardy bonds immediately before their marriage probably referring to him and the possibly related fact that his second wife had a child just over a year after the drowning, some 4 years before he married her ... I would wonder about suicide.)
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 03 December 12 17:15 GMT (UK) »
Lamorran was a tiny parish, part of the estate of Tregothnan House.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Lamorran/index.html
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 03 December 12 17:33 GMT (UK) »
I know. ;) It was but a few pages in censuses.

But "Water Gate" -- ??
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 December 12 20:36 GMT (UK) »
Some thoughts!!

Could Kea refer to Old Kea or Kea Wood?
Both near the water - just a quick boat ride across, and a shorter walk to Lamorran.

Alternatively, could he have travelled to Truro by boat?
Seems a much more sensible option than walking!! ;D
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 03 December 12 21:11 GMT (UK) »
I should have been clearer -- Kea isn't mentioned in the burial record, it's just that the only Water Gate I could find in censuses was an address in Kea.

I also should have been clearer that the deceased was a 'she'. ;)

The burial record suggests there was an inquest - from the link above:

found drowned at Water Gate in returning from Truro.
Verdict accidental death

Drowning was so terribly common in that era ...

Would travelling to Truro by boat have been the usual option then, in 1798?

Remember, I'm a total foreigner -- even my notions of the lay of the land come entirely from google maps!

I don't know exactly where in the area referred to as Lamorran they would have been. The couple had married in 1783 in St Clement parish, then had two children in St Erme and three in Lamorran. The husband was a miller when he remarried in 1806 in Newlyn and that seems to have been a family occupation (no occupation on the earlier marriage/baptism records; on the two pre-marriage bastardy bonds in St Clement that I would think are his, he is yeoman and husbandman). A miller would have lived by water I guess ...


btw -- I love how your family origin places mirror mine!
-- Devon, Wiltshire, Essex, Kent ... one of my Devon/Cornwall family was supposedly even born in Jersey  :)
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 03 December 12 21:56 GMT (UK) »
Having had many holidays in Cornwall - including 2 weeks at Ruan Lanihorne - I know the area a little!

I believe the rivers up to Truro were better navigable back then - less silting.
And looking at the maps, a water journey would be more direct than walking or riding a horse?


From GenUKI re Truro:
and much tin raised in the county was shipped from its quays. Its decline as a port has also led to the disappearance of some industries.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 03 December 12 22:15 GMT (UK) »
Many of the these creeks have dams near where they flow into a larger creek/river and I wonder if the water gate described was on the dam?

Lamorran has just such a dam, upstream of the church, creating a pond on the river.

And I agree, going by boat to Truro was definitely the best option.  The woods still come right down to the water's edge in many places.

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 03 December 12 22:40 GMT (UK) »
Certainly very interesting -- for instance, just from looking at a map, I would never have thought of Truro as a port! Google satellite does show a fleet of what seem to be small pleasure craft at the widest/deepest part of the waterway. And I guess the sandy bed I'm seeing is the silt you refer to, KG. In that view, there doesn't even appear to be water by Lamorran.

I'm having a terrible time visualizing this ... upstream of the church: could you situate it for me by reference to the "Keeper's Cottage" that is shown at google maps? Left, right, north, south ... will I be able to spot the dam on satellite view?

The water gate being the dam is an interesting idea; that's why I'd wondered whether there was a lock. I wonder why there would be a dam; could it have to do with milling?

Many questions, no rush for anyone to spend time on answers. ;)



HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Water Gate, Lamorran: what/where is it?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 03 December 12 23:02 GMT (UK) »
Quote
will I be able to spot the dam on satellite view?

Most certainly.  The upstream side of the dam i.e. on the west side and which seems to be overshadowed by trees, is full of water - a dark brown colour.  Downstream of the dam, i.e. to the east, there are mud flats and a dark line showing the meandering stream.  On this satellite view, the tide is obviously out.  From Keepers Cottage, look west.  The dam is in the bright trees which seem to spread across the inlet about 150 metres from the cottage.  This map show the dam clearly: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sga/

I don't know if the river had enough water to power a mill, but they did use tide mills in Cornwall.  The water behind the dam was slowly released to power the mill and was replenished by the returning tide.

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk