John ROBBIE (Robie), 25th Regiment of Foot

[wildcats13]

I am trying to find out what happened to my gr.gr.grandfather, John Robbie, who was conscripted into the 25th Regiment of Foot on 10th February 1826 in Montrose, Forfar, Scotland. He was listed as No. 484 John Robbie Private and previous trade was as a groom. I live in Australia and recently finally received access to his army records, but the copies are hard to read, so I will say what I know and gleemed from the records.

1. John was born in 1805 in Arbroath, Forfar, Scotland, parents John & Helen (Barclay) Robbie
2. Married Amelia Simpson on 28 September 1825 in Arbroath.
3. John conscripted on 10 February 1826 in Montrose, Service No. 484.
4. Amelia gives birth on 21 July 1826 to son, John Simpson who later came to Australia.
5. Appears Amelia died at birth or soon after as grand parents raise child.
6. John deserted twice, tried, convicted and sentenced to six months hard labour in 1830.
7. He was sent to the West Indies from 8th February 1832 to 28th April 1836.
8. John spent periods while there in hospital before being sent back to Britain.
9. After various medical examinations, he was considered pulmonic for seven years, had a
   nervous temperament and the least exertion excited the arterial system and was   
   declared unfit for further military service and discharged on 7th September 1837.
10. Could not recognise officers names but noticed a reference to Limerick.
11. Don't know what happened to him after he was discharged. He doesn't appear to have
     returned to Arbroath. I was told a John Robbie died in 1855 in Scotland but not sure if he
     was the right one.
12. Would also like to know where he was located before going to the West Indies. His
     desertions may have had something to do with the loss of his wife.

Hope someone can shed some light on my problem

Regards,
Wildcats13

[bleckie]

Hi Wildcats13

According to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk  There is a death in 1855 with a birth year of 1806 for a John Robbie in Angus

Have you ruled this one out as the one you are looking for.

Yours Aye
BruceL

[wildcats13]

No, I haven't given up on this one as it is the only lead I have. Is there any other information, like date, where in Angus etc.

Strange thing is his son arrived in Australia in February 1855 with his wife Ann Ballantine, who he married on 13 April 1852 in Glascow, Lanarkshire, Scotland, if any of that helps

Cheers,
Wildcats13

[bleckie]

Hi wildcats13

You would need to view the information that www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk  has unfortunately I have no credits left. or search every parish in Angus on the free search that will give you the parish in which he died. The certificate will give you parents if known to the informant also give you wife's name if married or widowed because his son was married in Glasgow may not have any baring on where John Died as there was a lot of movement among the population around this time.

Yours Aye
BruceL

[km1971]

I have a couple of sightings of him in some musters I have for the period.

In Qtr 2 1837 (ie April, May and June) – In May they marched for 3-4 days from Templemore to Limerick. They arrived back from the West Indies in May 1836. They spent a month in Cork before moving to Templemore. He had four days in hospital at either Templemore or Limerick. And on 10th June he was sent to the General Hospital at Dublin.

Lost all rights to a pension on 27th April 1830. So I am surprised they kept his record. If he had received a pension you would expect them to record his intended residence. But they do not. So there will not be any military records of what happened to him after 1837.

He would have been paid 1s a day when he enlisted. It had risen to 1s 1d a day by the time he was discharged. Also he was not conscripted – he enlisted. They did not have numbers when he joined. These were added a few years later, and he was the 484th longest serving man at the time. The discharge hearing was in Limerick on September 8th, 1837 and he was finally discharged on September 25th. I do not have how long he was in the General Hospital in Dublin.

There must have been a recruiting party in Montrose, as four companies comprising the Depot was in Berwick upon Tweed. The service companies were already in the West Indies. You may be correct as he was ‘forgiven’ for his first desertion, and not imprisoned and still retained his pension rights. Which I have not seen before.

Ken

[wildcats13]

Thanks Ken for all those details.

It certainly sounds like a twisted tale of events, and it appears that his condition was not ideal for military service. It would be hard to know whether he was like that when he joined or as a result of his time in the service.

These results still leave a few questions unanswered namely;
1. Would the military have repatriated him back to Scotland or would he have had to find his own
    way home? If he received no pension, how would he pay his way?
2. It is a bit hard from here, but would census or electoral roll details be available that could indicate
    what he did and where he was from when he was discharged in 1837 till 1855?

I had found the following info. a few years ago, which doesn't show any sign of John going back to his family. John's father (John Robbie) died on 27 July 1849 in Stonehaven, Fetteresso, Kincardine. The John Robie shown as a witness will be his son who married in Glascow and his first child (John Ballentine Robbie) was born in Perth on 22 January 1853.

In 1851 Helen Robbie (63 Dunotter) was a widow and spinner residing on Barclay's Street, Stonehaven, Fetteresso, Kincardine with her grandson and grocer merchant (24 Arbroath).

The Inventory of Mrs. Helen Robbie alias Barclay, residing in Stonehaven, was recorded 7 December 1852 in the Stonehaven Sheriff Court, which consisted (1)  cash L.10.4.1, (2) 15 shares of the Stonehaven Gas Light Company, L.18, (3) auctioned furniture, L.7.5.3, total L35.9.7. Witnesses John Robie of Glascow and Alex Drysdale, JP.

Thanks for your help so far.

Cheers,
Wildcats13

[km1971]

He would have been given a prepaid ticket to his intended place of residence. Without a pension he would have had to look after himself. If he could not find work the parish where he was living could have issued a settlement order to send him back to his own parish – usually his parish of birth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_Relief_Act_1662

Forfeiting a pension was a deterrent used by the army to stop desertion. They often also branded a two time deserter with a D on his chest. Purchasing a legal discharge cost £20, a huge amount when a private was earned a shilling a day. It would have been too easy to take six months IHL (imprisonment with hard labour); been branded (or not); and then thrown out. Instead, they made them serve until unfit to continue, and then discharged without a pension.

He would not have had the vote – you needed to be a property owner, or rented a property above a certain value. He may be in the 1841 or 1851 census for England & Wales or Scotland. The Irish censuses were lost/destroyed.

You could find the man who died in 1855 on the census and see what that says. I cannot add anything to the other FH information.

Ken