Who was Jane Short?

[Ladyhawk]

There is this burial

Eliza M.D.G. Short buried 23.2. 1880 aged 70

Eliza Maria Decima Griffies Short  widow died 20 Feb 1880 at Ashover
probate 4 Feb 1890 Admin of the personal estate was granted at the Principal Registry under the
usual limitations to William Jones Evans Solicitor of Llandovey lawful Attorney of
Lawrence William Holwell Short the son only next of kin now residing in Canada
Effects £334 5s.7d.

[Yasmina4]

Oh that is such good news.

She kept in touch with Laurence.   Thank you.

Any chance that you could find Laurence on any passenger lists to UK?

I would like to think they saw each other occasionally. What a puzzle.

Laurence was using a Llandovery attorney.  Where his mother was from.  It seems that he was
familiar with his mother's home in Wales.

Sandra

[Ladyhawk]

Any chance that you could find Laurence on any passenger lists to UK?

Sorry no luck 

Interesting that on LWHS marriage 8 Aug 1860 Perth to Eliza S Gill his parents named as William & JANE (you would need to check original document)

I’ve added the links from your previous threads for Lawrence William Holwell Short hopefully not to duplicate the same info.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,629766.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,629723.0.html

Reading the thread I don’t think you had the 1861 census or the deaths for Lawrence & Eliza Short

1861 Fullarton Perth Canada West
William Short 27 England dittoed occucpation as watch maker
Elliza 22 States
Methodist married 1 year

L W H Short age 72 died 25/11/1905
Place of death Blanshard - See link http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php

Eliza Sophia Short died age 88 26th Jul 1927 Vancouver

I have found these two Uk censuses with 2 Lorance Shorts & a Charlotte Short on

do you think they relate to your Short family?

1841 Class: HO107; Piece: 108; Book: 19; Civil Parish: Stockport: Cheshire; E D 25; Folio: 4; Page: 2
Wood End
Lorance Short 30 (1811) Calico Printer
Charlotte Short 65 (1776) Ind.
Harriott 25   “
Charlotte 20 “
Lorance 9 (1832)
Not born in this county

1851 HO107; Piece: 2218; Folio: 554; Page: 10
John WATERHOUSE 52 Derbyshire Designer
Harriett 29 Ashover
Charlotte SHORT mother-in-law  79 (1772) Thornby Gloucestershire Cleryman’s widow
Harriet Broadhurst visitor 17
Hannah Barnett servant 20

marriage of Harriet Holwell Short to John Waterhouse, father Lawrence Short
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FMRK-8YL
and this from Lancashire OPC gives more detail

2 Feb 1845 St Stephen, Salford, Lancashire
John Waterhouse f/a Pattern Designer  single  father James Manufacturer
Harriett Holwell Short f/a single father Lawrence occ Clerk
both of 9 Simpsons Buildings, Salford
Witness: George Waterhouse; Ann Strongitharm, (X)

Death of Charlotte Eleanora Short
Sep 1855 Barton Upon Irwell Lancashire

Now back to the start of your thread and the question you asked

 "who was Jane Short"?

Public tree on An*y gives her name as Jane SHAW no dob or pob or marriage date
(can see no evidence that supports this) the only way I can think of to find out is to obtain
a b/c of one of their children, unfortunatley I haven't found anything online

This you may already have

William Holwell Short age 28 (1804) England occ Army
arrived NY on 6 Feb 1832 on the ship named John Jay,
2 other male passengers plus Master Nathan H Holdinge

1860/1870 Canadian Census
William SHORT b1803 (Farmer), Jane b1823 & family in Oregon Dan Wisconsin

Perhaps if you can find a birth certificate of one of William & Jane’s children this may help
discover her maiden name -  children named
William W Short (1851) , Florence A (M) (1857) & Fanny (1861) born Wisconsin

EDIT

this is where the SHAW surname has come from marriage possibly a second of dau Florence Amelia Short father named as William H Short mother Jane SHAW

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRVD-H9Z

and looks as if they had a dau born 1845 Wales (shame they didn't add the name Shaw )

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X1R8-449

Charlotte Anne Jane Halwell Short
Sep 1845 Llanrwst Denbighshire vol 27 page 176

[Yasmina4]

  My you have been really busy.

So much to take in.

I found that Laurence had married in Ontario to an Eliza Gill.  He had many children but by 1901 seems to have separated form his family.  He was a Farmer.

From another investigation Laurence appeared briefly in Ontario at the age of 15 but reappeared aged 18 living with his father WHS and the mystery Jane Short in New York Census 1850.

I did find a Jane Short living with a William H Short in new york with a child named Florence.

I went back to Jane's born in England of her age and settled on  a Jane Elliot but that was not her as she lived all her life as a Housekeeper firmly based in UK/

Reverend Laurence had a  daughter who matched the  Waterhouse marriage as she was the one who paid for the dedication Church window in Ashover.

Note that the wife WHS left behind was described as a widow when she died.  Which ties in with the WHS death.  It seems unlikely that he actually ,married Jane!

I will have a close look at your other findings.

I am very impressed by what you have managed to come up with.  Thank you.

[Yasmina4]

Interesting that on LWHS marriage 8 Aug 1860 Perth to Eliza S Gill his parents named as William & JANE (you would need to check original document)....will make a note of that

I’ve added the links from your previous threads for Lawrence William Holwell Short hopefully not to duplicate the same info.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,629766.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,629723.0.html..Thank you did not know how to add links.


Reading the thread I don’t think you had the 1861 census or the deaths for Lawrence & Eliza Short

1861 Fullarton Perth Canada West
William Short 27 England dittoed occucpation as watch maker
Elliza 22 States
Methodist married 1 year....He was born in 1832.  Understood he was a farmer.

L W H Short age 72 died 25/11/1905
Place of death Blanshard - See link http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php ....Will note that.....  Looks likely.

Eliza Sophia Short died age 88 26th Jul 1927 Vancouver.  I think they had separated by 1901.

I have found these two Uk censuses with 2 Lorance Shorts & a Charlotte Short on

do you think they relate to your Short family?

1841 Class: HO107; Piece: 108; Book: 19; Civil Parish: Stockport: Cheshire; E D 25; Folio: 4; Page: 2
Wood End
Lorance Short 30 (1811) Calico Printer
Charlotte Short 65 (1776) Ind.
Harriott 25   “
Charlotte 20 “
Lorance 9 (1832)
Not born in this county............?  I wonder if they are related.  They seem very fond of the names Charlotte, Harriet and Laurence...but then again perhaps the names were fashionable.  The Rev Laurence died in Whitby so they seem to have ties with Yorkshire.

1851 HO107; Piece: 2218; Folio: 554; Page: 10
John WATERHOUSE 52 Derbyshire Designer
Harriett 29 Ashover
Charlotte SHORT mother-in-law  79 (1772) Thornby Gloucestershire Cleryman’s widow
Harriet Broadhurst visitor 17
Hannah Barnett servant 20................this has to be right.

marriage of Harriet Holwell Short to John Waterhouse, father Lawrence Short
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FMRK-8YL
and this from Lancashire OPC gives more detail

2 Feb 1845 St Stephen, Salford, Lancashire
John Waterhouse f/a Pattern Designer  single  father James Manufacturer
Harriett Holwell Short f/a single father Lawrence occ Clerk
both of 9 Simpsons Buildings, Salford
Witness: George Waterhouse; Ann Strongitharm, (X) ...........I saw clerk and thought surely not but at some point Rev Laurence was a Clerk in orders somewhere  so yes  this must be them.  The money for the church window must have come from Daddy Waterhouse..manufacturer.  I wonder what they manufactured?

Death of Charlotte Eleanora Short
Sep 1855 Barton Upon Irwell Lancashire.. he would have been mortified that the Holwell was not included in her name.

Now back to the start of your thread and the question you asked

 "who was Jane Short"?

Public tree on An*y gives her name as Jane SHAW no dob or pob or marriage date
(can see no evidence that supports this) the only way I can think of to find out is to obtain
a b/c of one of their children, unfortunatley I haven't found anything online...I will try to contact the tree owner thru Mundia.  Many thanks

This you may already have

William Holwell Short age 28 (1804) England occ Army
arrived NY on 6 Feb 1832 on the ship named John Jay,
2 other male passengers plus Master Nathan H Holdinge.....I had been told that he had arrived in New York 1832 so this confirms it......Army, now then thats something to go on, his younger brother,Edward, was in the army in India so it seems likely that WHS was out there too.  Will have a look.  My daughter in her one look up came upa with a William H Short in the army but we were busy pursuing other line and she did not save that inf for further thought.

1860/1870 Canadian Census
William SHORT b1803 (Farmer), Jane b1823 & family in Oregon Dan Wisconsin

Perhaps if you can find a birth certificate of one of William & Jane’s children this may help
discover her maiden name -  children named
William W Short (1851) , Florence A (M) (1857) & Fanny (1861) born Wisconsin. I /wonder?

EDIT

this is where the SHAW surname has come from marriage possibly a second of dau Florence Amelia Short father named as William H Short mother Jane SHAW

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRVD-H9Z

and looks as if they had a dau born 1845 Wales (shame they didn't add the name Shaw )

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X1R8-449.  So  they may have been in Wales for a while.

Charlotte Anne Jane Halwell Short
Sep 1845 Llanrwst Denbighshire vol 27 page 176.  Thats her!.............My grandchildren are going to be so pleased at all the Welsh connections.


That is an amazing amount of research  you have achieved and I am really really grateful.

 :)Sandra

[gcranham]

I am new to this site and just came across your question regarding Jane Short.  She and WHS were my great great grandparents and her birth name was Jane Shaw.  I have also been trying to find out more about her.  She and WHS had 3 children together as well as raising LWHS together.  One of their children, Fanny (Francis), was my great grandmother.  I have Jane's stitching sampler from 1836 with her name "Jane Shaw".  I have been given information through family records that Eliza Maria Griffies Williams had gone insane and that is why WHS left her.  I'm not sure of your connection to the Holwell line, but if interested, I have a family tree that goes back from Charlotte and Laurence's children all the way to the 15th century!!
I look forward to chatting with you and, hopefully, solving the puzzle of Jane     

[Yasmina4]

 :)what a marvelous Christmas present.

I had almost given up hope of tracing further back than Laurence 's grandfather, John Short of Dronfield, formally of Madras. John  seemed to pop up married and ready made , apparently a nabob, in Dronfield.

Laurence's grandfather, the  Rector Laurence Short ,was my son in law's  great great grandfather..

I happen to live  a few miles from the estate where William's wife hailed from.  the Llynywormwood estate in myddfai, outside llandovery, Carmarthenshire, Wales.  The estate is now owned by HRH Prince Charles. The mansion, 13 bedrooms, has been pulled down however.

If you can place two more posts on here, we will be able to exchange private messages..

I am delighted that you have joined Roots Chat.

Sandra

[gcranham]

Hi Sandra!!  So nice to "meet" you!! 
Unfortunately, I don't have much information on Laurence Short's lineage.  I do, however, have his wife's (Charlotte Eleanora Holwell) lineage and can send a photocopy image once we can exchange private messages.
I had heard of Eliza's father's estate and that HRH Prince Charles had purchased it a few years back.  What a lovely place to live!!  I have several of Eliza's belongings ~ a "nosegay" (as my grandmother called it) that she created with silk thread...I can take a photo of it and send it to you as well, as well as a journal of sorts that she carried with her on her travels all over Europe.  She must have been a fascinating woman!!
Only one more post to go  !!

[Yasmina4]

Oh how lucky that you have an Eliza nosegay  and her journal.  I would love to see both.
I would also love to hear more about her.  Personally I refer to her as Decima as that was one of her names and it appeals to me.....I have a Septimus in my family you see..he was the seventh son.

I am  interested in jane shaws  background.  She may not have been a blood relative but is of great interest.

So no news of john short in your records.

The holwells..  Yes I would love to see their lineage.  It must be fascinating.

My son  in law's mother. Maureen Holwell Short  born 1922 was the last in her branch of the family to carry the Holwell name  it was used by her grandfather. 

One more post to go and then we can really get down to this.

Sandra