Who was Jane Short?

[Yasmina4]

Can you explain.

Have just found " my "  Eliza Short on Census for 1851. And 1861

She is described as a boarder in the Household of Eliza Short.  Does that mean she rented the property?

Regards Sandra

[sunflower]

Hi Sandra

The only address given for the burial is Ashover.

In 1851/61/71 census she appears to be a boarder with the Wall family and is described as a
Annuitant, so she was getting an income from somewhere.

I can't see any other information sorry.  Have you tried looking at the Derbyshire Records Office online catalogue.

http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/leisure/record_office/records/catalogue/search/default.asp

Carol

[Yasmina4]

Hi

Thank you for helping me.

She was a getting £50 per year from her father's estate.  This was to be administered in a kind way by her brother allowing no interference from her husband or others!  So they had got WHS measure by then.

Would love to hear more of her life but I think thats all we can find.  She seems to have been very badly treated. No home of her own, living amongst strangers, her son taken from her when he was a toddler.

Did the census give an address for the Wall family?
Regards Sandra and many thanks

[spendlove]

Hi,

Not sure what information you have but:-

LaWrence Short = Charlotte Eleanor Holwell  30th April 1801 at Thornbury, Gloucestershire
she was the daughter of the Rev. William Holwell of Thornbury, Glocs.

There is an obituary for her Father 13th February 1798 in the Gentleman's Magazine:-

February 13 Rev William Holwell BDFRS vicar of Thornbury in Gloucestershire prebendary of Exeter and formerly chaplain to the King distinguished by very superior talents as a scholar and for a critical knowledge of the Greek language He published in 1766 Selecti Dionysii Halicainassensis de Priscis Scriptoribus Tractatus Graece et Latine of which see the Anecdotes of MrBowyer pp 212 381 and in 1775 Extracts from Mr Pope's Translation corresponding with the Beauties of Homer selected from the Iliad 2 vols 8vo ibid p 577   

The above also had a son William Holwell who  took the name of Carr (this all to do with
his wife and inheritance)  for more information about this you need to go to:-
  http://books.google.co.uk/
and search  for Rev. William Holwell Carr.

The Reverend Holwell Carr left all his collection of Paintings to the Nation - go get them back
they are worth a fortune.

There is also information for Rev. Laurence Short on:-

http://www.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/search/index.jsp

and the Cambridge Alumni:-
http://venn.lib.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search.pl?sur=short&suro=c&fir=laurence&firo=c&cit=&cito=c&c=DBY&tex=&sye=&eye=&col=QUEENS&maxcount=50

You will see it states that Laurence was the son of John Short of Dronfield & Madras.
Think you should look for information in Dronfield Derbyshire for John Short.

Hope this helps
Spendlove

[Yasmina4]

That shook me for a minute ???I thought I had been following the wrong William Holwell but realise
your William Holwell is not my William Holwell Short son of the Reverend Laurence.

Will have a look at William Holwell Carr with interest.

There is a window in the Church dedicated to Reverend Laurence Short.  Unfortunately the dedication plaque has been removed , we are asking the present incumbent to reattach it.

On some sites Laurence is the son of Anne Slate and John Short of Dronfield formerly of Madras
and grandson of John Short and Caroline Emma Hay.

One of Laurence's sons Edward, went out to Madras and founded a family business after his army career there.

Laurence born 1769, parents married 1768.  Unable to find parents and grandparents in Derbyshire
and it seems to early for accurate records in Madras.

Many thanks for the input  Sandra

[spendlove]

Hi,

Sorry to have confused, but as many of your ancestors names contained the name Holwell,
I thought it would be putting "meat on the bones" do discover how well connected the Short
family became with the marriage of Laurence Short to Charlotte E. Holwell.

You will see that the Cambridge Alumni & the Clergy data base, connections given, confirm information you have about Laurence.

SHORT OF NEWHAM HALL
 SHORT, REV HUGH MARTIN MA of Newham Hall, Stokesley co York Vicar of Thornthwaite Keswick Cumberland, JP b 8 Aug 1817 m 1 July 1842 Mary Anne dau of Featonby Burrell, Esq of Newham Hall, Yorkshire and Billingham Grange, Durham son of Peter Burrell Esq Durham by his wife Jane Watson of Burn Hall Durham and has issue:-
 I LAURENCE FEATONBY HOLWELL  b. 6 Feb 1846
 II Hugh Martin b 27 Oct 1850
 III George Ofspring Blackall b 24 Dec 1855
IV Arthur Burrell b. 2 Aug 1858  d. Feb 1859
 I Mary Anne Nodder
11 Isabella Thurston
III Emily Frances Burrell.

LINEAGE - The late REV LAURENCE SHORT MA rector of Ashover Chesterfield son of John Short of Madras by Caroline Emma Hay his wife m Charlotte Eleanora dau of the Rev William Holwell BD vicar of Thornbury Gloucestershire prebendary of Exeter senior censor of Christ Church Oxford and chaplain in ordinary to HM King QEORGE III and had issue:-
HUGH MARTIN SHORT (REV), of Newham Hall (see above)
WILLIAM HOLWELL m 12 April 1831 Eliza Maria Griffies dau of Sir George Griffies Williams, Bart of   Llwynny Wood, Carmarthenshire.
LAURENCE.
EDWARD HOLWELL  m Miss Coffin dau of General Coffin Madras.
BERESFORD.
ANNE-HOLWELL m to Edward Kirkby son of Samuel Kirkby Esq of Grove House Sheffield,
HARRIOTT HOLWELL
CHARLOTT ELEANORA HOLWELL
martha isabella holwell m to George Buxton JP Northampton son of George Buxton Esq JP Cold Ashby Northamptonshire.

It then gives the description of the coat of arms which I have not given.
The above is from "A genealogical & heraldic history of the landed gentry of Great Britain" Vol. 2
page 1259 by Sir Bernard Burke.

You will see that Burke does not give marriage details for Laurence or Beresford.  Would also add
it is vital that all the information in  such publications is actually checked - many are submitted
by the various families and are not correct.

However you have the birth dates of the Children of Laurence - so easy to check.

Laurence is listed as widower when he married Charlotte Holwell, so looking for records in
Dronfield :-
Laurence Short Bpt. 1.2.1769 Dronfield Derbyshire Father John
Laurence Short = 12.8.1794 Dronfield Sarah Staneforth

There is also a Thomas Short Bpt 12.6.1770 at Dronfield Father John Short

John Short = Ann Slate 17th February 1768 at Dronfield

This early no Mother is state in Church Registers - so it is necessary to discover other evidence.

Have you discovered a Will for John Short?

Spendlove

[Yasmina4]

Many thanks for the research.  Useful again.

My line is descended from Laurence's son Edward Holwell Short who married Louisa Coffin, daughter
of the General.

As so often happens I came against the John Short brick wall and started to look at other relatives.
Got curious about the William Holwell Short and the son's disappearance and went off at a tangent.

No  I have not found John Short's will.  Have had a look but am at present using free research sites

I do so wish I could find the John Shorts on line.  The" formerly of Madras" is tickling the curiousity as we wonder if the Estates (Coffee,tea and fruit plantations), set up by son Edward were on land given to the John's by the East India Company.

Cannot get up to London and records do not seem to be available for Madras pre 1760 on line.

Again thank you very much for your interest.  It is a very interesting family.
Have read the description of the coat of arms but was unable to see an image of it.

Sandra

[Ladyhawk]

Hi,

Sorry to have confused, but as many of your ancestors names contained the name Holwell,
I thought it would be putting "meat on the bones" do discover how well connected the Short
family became with the marriage of Laurence Short to Charlotte E. Holwell.

You will see that the Cambridge Alumni & the Clergy data base, connections given, confirm information you have about Laurence.

SHORT OF NEWHAM HALL

SHORT, REV HUGH MARTIN MA of Newham Hall, Stokesley co York Vicar of Thornthwaite Keswick Cumberland, JP b 8 Aug 1817 m 1 July 1842 Mary Anne dau of Featonby Burrell, Esq of Newham Hall, Yorkshire and Billingham Grange, Durham son of Peter Burrell Esq Durham by his wife Jane Watson of Burn Hall Durham and has issue:-

 I  LAURENCE FEATONBY HOLWELL  b. 6 Feb 1846

 II Hugh Martin b 27 Oct 1850

 III George Ofspring Blackall b 24 Dec 1855

IV Arthur Burrell b. 2 Aug 1858  d. Feb 1859

 I Mary Anne Nodder

11 Isabella Thurston

III Emily Frances Burrell.

for info. relates to some of the Short family above

Mary Ann Short of Thornwaite Cumberland died 21 Jan 1872 wife of the Rev. Hugh Martin Short, Clerk Admin. of effects granted to Rev. Hugh, effects under £600

Lawrence Featonby Holwell Short born 10 Mar 1846 
Baptism Date:   5 Mar 1846 St John the Evangelist Wortley
Father Hugh Martin Short mother Mary Anne

Hugh remarried 26 Feb 1876 Emma Catherine Cox, both  widowed his occ.  clerk in orders Thornwaite Keswick Cumberland father Laurence (too faint to make out witness & occupation of his father Laurence it may just read dec'd)

Lawrence Featonby Holwell Short of Rockhampton Queensland colony of NSW gentleman died 16 Dec 1893 probate London 26th Feb to Tansley Witt public accountant effects £3106 4s 2d

The Rev Hugh Martin Short of Aislaby Lodge Whitby Clerk died 9 June 1898 Probate
London 20 Oct to Mary Anne Nodder Short spinster & George Ofspring Blackall Short gentleman, effects £960 5s. 4d. Resworn Feb 1899 £1080 15s. 4d.

Hugh Martin Short age 81 (1817) Abode Whitby
Parish:  St Stephen Kirkstall  Burial Date: 14 Jun 1898

Emma Catherine Short of the Rectory Manorhouse Fakenham Norfolk widow died 2 Nov 1904 probate London 25 Nov to James Percy Chadwick solicitor & Tansley Witt chartered accountant Effects £29504 1s 2d. Resworn £30954 9s. 4d

Emma Catherine Short age 86 (1818) Rectory Manor House Fakenham Norfolk
Burial Norwood Cemetery Norwood Rd Lambeth Burial Date: 8 Nov 1904

[Yasmina4]

Hi

That's all new to me.  Thank you so much.  Cannot see where the John Shorts come in.

We knew one branch went off to Australia.  So that solves that.

All grist to the mill.

Very grateful.  Sandra