Walter Harold RENZ

[JaneyCanuck]

Do you have George Denton Renz's full date of birth?

A George Denton Richardson born 3 Aug 1910 died in December quarter 1970 in Basford reg dist, Nottinghamshire. George D Renz's birth was registered in September quarter 1910, which covers that birthdate. There is no birth of any George D_ Richardson in England/Wales in 1910, or of any Geoge Denton after George Denton Freeman in West Ham in 1909 (births after 1911 showed only middle initial).

There's no George D Richardson marriage in Nottinghamshire; 1933 (the earliest after 1925) to 1981 there are 33 GDR marriages. Especially if George Renz was in the military in WWII and not yet married by then, he could have married anywhere.

Surname changes are not unheard of. In this case, the practice of anglicizing German names circa WWI could be one explanation; another could be that Walter decided to adopt his real father's surname, if he knew or learned it, although post-1911 seems a little late in the day for that. Or the Renz-s might have divorced or separated, or Laura was widowed, and George took his mother's new partner's surname ...

It's somewhat odd that there were no more Renz-Turner births after the 1911 census. It's impossible to tell whether the couple had children under another surname, as Turner is too common and if it were Richardson, so is that combination, even.

I would definitely be curious about that George Denton Richardson. You presumably know whether the birthdate on the death record would match up at all.

[JaneyCanuck]

Stupid, stupid me.

The name of the man whom Oceana Renz was "visiting" in the 1881 census -- a few months before Walter was conceived -- was RICHARDSON.

I would now want to be looking at the George Denton Richardson death certificate to see who the informant of death was and whether that information can be used to find living family members.

George Denton Richardson was a flight lieutenant in WWI:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/35849/supplements/164

I also have a theory about who J Richardson was, but I'll save that for a bit.

[JaneyCanuck]

Oh, all right.

Find John Walter Richardson in the 1911 census. If you don't have access, let me know. Or here you go for some of it:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWQM-DBH

In 1901 he is John Richardson aged 49, single, Secretary of a Public Company, born in Ireland, visitor in the household of Frank Cobbett (as I read it; Anc'y reads it as Collett) in St John and St Margaret, London, St Geo Han Sq reg dist.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32705/pages/3869
I suspect.

I make John Walter Richardson part of the prominent Richardson family in Lisburn, Antrim, but I haven't figured out quite how yet. James Nicholson Richardson born 1846 was an MP in the 1881 census, in St Geo Han Sq as well (according to info and trees on line, John Walter was not a brother of James Nicholson). They were the Richardson linen company in County Antrim, JN Richardson Sons and Owden, and were Quakers.
http://www.archive.org/stream/debrettshouseo1881londuoft#page/198/mode/2up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Nicholson_Richardson

There is no obvious John W Richardson death in the index to match him. It could be worth looking at probate records at Anc'y, where there are several John Walter Richardson records during the probable period for his death; I don't have paid access to that database.

[Unė kthimi i papenduar]

The George Denton Richardson is a very interesting prospect and further investigation is ongoing.

Thank you.

General interest purposes only: There was a connection to a conservative politician - one of the Sprake granddaughters married a guy who was elevated to the peerage and the 3rd Baron is sitting in that place at this time.   All the tales of "gentlemen" and beautiful actresses !!!!

[JaneyCanuck]

How did you manage to edit that post??

My "modify" button is missing. I just wanted to correct my typo:

George Denton Richardson was a flight lieutenant in WWI

should say WW II, not I, of course.


The James Nicholson Richardson MP I referred to was a Liberal, unfortunately.

There was a Conservative obviously of the same family, though: James Herbert Richardson born c1875 in Lisburn, Co Antrim (the seat of the Richardson family in question):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW2X-W4F
(I am unable to access the original document at Anc'y but you can give it a try.)
I believe this was his employer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Union_of_Conservative_and_Constitutional_Associations
(fascinating sidetracks and reading between lines - he was sharing digs with Ernest Lloyd Jones, an artist, who is not the known ELJ artist born in 1901 ...)

There are a few Richardson magistrates listed here, as of 1862 (J Richardson in 1881 was a JP, as was an older generation of Richardson in Antrim):
http://www.libraryireland.com/articles/AntrimCountyDirectoryThom1862/index.php

Richardson, Jonathan, M.P., Lisburn
Richardson, Jonathan Joseph, Lisburn; Reform Club, London, S.W.
Richardson, William P., Portrush

The family generally (they were Quakers) were recognized as enlightened employers in their linen business.

I just can't figure out where John Walter Richardson fits in.

But if you get the George Denton Richardson death certificate, you may find that there is family! (And we may find we are discussing somebody's recent ancestors, if so, which isn't really cool ... but they might be unaware of the family heritage and be interested.)

Gentlemen and beautiful actresses -- indeed! my gr-grfather's sister the actress (who was almost exactly the same age as Oceana) (and they might really have been, as he claimed, the children of the black sheep younger brother of the Viscount whose surname she was given as a middle name, rather than the father declared on their births and baptisms, you never know) -- she married a wealthy heir from a Scottish family in Wales. He subsequently blew it all on the ponies and went bankrupt. And when I finally did track down one of the two great-granddaughters of the actress, her only surviving descendants, in the US via a couple of generations in South Africa, she had never heard of her and was indeed interested. Oh, and the actress's husband's niece married a Baron, and the current holder of that title (I spared no effort in trying to find descendants of my grx2 grandparents!) is a nice guy who works as a probation officer these days.

[Unė kthimi i papenduar]

A  Laura E Richardson (49) death in 1932 Birmingham  is now drawing my attention.   Things are starting to move!

Modify icon seems to disappear - probably as soon as the moderators get to the message.   Things are not the same since the change in the formats etc.

[Unė kthimi i papenduar]

Having now seen the death entry for 12th November 1970  Basford.   Not conclusive as place of birth is  given as 3 August 1910 Wallasey.    All birth details, 1911 census,  and now death registration have Cheshire as common factor but no George Richardson birth in my searches .        Informant is listed as "inmate" and this George was unmarried.     Will now place this in my pending file until next winter when the urge to solve this mystery overtakes me again.

Thank you all.

[JaneyCanuck]

The death certificate gives the exact date of birth for George Denton Richardson (which may not be correct, of course, if the informant did not know or there was no record available to show it).

The question is whether that date matches the date of birth on the birth certificate for Geoge D Renz. It does match the quarter in which his birth was registered: Jul-Aug-Sep 1910.

The birth of George D Renz was registered in Birkenhead reg dist, which covers Wallasey:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/birkenhead.html

I don't really see how there could be any doubt that Geoge Denton Richardson = George D/Denton Renz. But if you want to be 100% certain, you need the Renz birth certificate.

I also don't see much doubt that Walter Harold Renz's father was John Walter Richardson.

How unfortunate that George seems not to have had a family. And it would still be interesting to know what became of Walter and Laura!

(Again though, I see from reading elsewhere that you have Walter's WWI records, as Renz.)