Antony Vatin 1759-1829

[richarde1979]

Nearly the LAST claim on Daniel Boitel’s Legacy

Francis, Daniel’s wife had  already died in 1851. When in Nov 1866 a Lady by the name of

Susanne Lawson  living at 14 Fuller Street Bethnal Green, (with her son lodging with her)

and aged 61yrs applied for the Coqueau Charity from the Hospital, stating that she was a

former Silk Weaveress & also kept a small General shop – now supported mainly by her son

& by former savings, increasing age, defective sight & badness of trade, had forced her to

ask for help. She stated that she was a relative of Daniel Boitel and giving the following

information about herself :-

Susanne was born Susanne Palmer, on the 3rd Feb 1805 she was baptised at the French

church Threadneedle Street, and living  at 3 Swan Street Bethnal Green, her parents being

Joseph Palmer and Elizabeth Vatin ( they had married on the 4th May 1789 at Marys

Whitechapel ).

On  14th Nov 1823 Susanne married  James Oliver in Christ Church Middlesex. Oliver died

seven years later on the 2nd Oct 1830. Then on Christmas day 1836 at St Marys Haggerston

 Susanne married Charles Lawson (Widower) he died on the 19th Oct 1857.

Although Susanne made the claim with the support of The Revd.J.Trevitt of St Philips

Church Bethnal Green, it appears that she was not elected until May 6th 1871, the request

having been proposed only on 6th Feb 1868


Maybe the hold up was the following statement  “ Mother was Elizabeth Vatin daughter of

Antony Vatin and his wife ‘Elizabeth’ Boitel & was  cousin of the late Mr Daniel Boitel”-


As we are aware, and Susanne wasn’t, is that Antony Snr’s wife’s name was Marie Boitel

( 2nd daughter of Adrien Boitel  She was born 1730, and married Antony Vatin Snr in 1758 


The Plot thickens - thinks I

Best

John

Hello John I hadn't seen this post before I posted my own. I do not think Susanne's wait for a place would have been in anyway affected by her slip up on her grandmother's name. Three years wasn't at all unusual, some claimants waited over a decade for a place. There were (still is) a finite number of places available, after application you were put on the list and when an existing inmate/claimant died or left, someone on the list was elected in their place. Priority went to the most urgent cases, so most people waited a few years, if they were lucky enough to be elected at all, many died before a place became available or were considered unsuitable due to their particular needs or condition and sent to the workhouse authorities instead.

[John1935]

Hello Richard

My wife reading all this over my shoulder,says she is puzzled why no one can find our (Bete Noir )

Solomon Macaire !!!! - his family goes from weaving to Ivory turning to an 'Empire' of pubs in

Bethnal Green - another story !!!

Bit of sunshine today - not too much though - just enough to let us know it's on it's way.

Best John

[John1935]

Morning Richard

So if Susanna Lawson had a grandaughter ( Mary Ann Clarke ) who appears to have died aged 6, how many children from the two marriages did Susanna have and who did they marry ?

Nauroy is only about 9 kms from Ronssoy, and one of the 10 villages, where people came from for Gardien Givry de Vervins's Preaching in 1691, at 'La Boite a Cailloux' near Hesbecourt, so quite possible that elder Vantins knew Boitels and Eusebes before they came over.

Think I should restart another post - re Macaires ?

Best

John

[richarde1979]

Morning John

Mary Ann Clark was Susannah Lawson nee Palmer's niece, the daughter of her sister Sarah Clarke nee Palmer. She was a granddaughter of their mother Elizabeth Palmer nee Vatin. Unlike her auntie who applied for the hospital but was eventually put on the Coqueau charity, Mary Ann was taken into the Hospital itself as an inmate, in July 1897, at the age of 69, and died there in February 1903. She was a sunday school teacher at Dolphin Court Ragged School, Spitalfields, and her brother had been a missionary. Her petition was supported by Septimus Hansard, the famous Christian Socialist and long time rector of St Matthew's Bethnal Green.

I had a look over the old posts Solomon Macaire. I don't think your likely to get any further on him. I've exhausted every avenue open to me with him. I think the strongest theory is he was a child of Jean and Amelie who had a child baptised in West London around the right time 1730's. Perhaps they were new refugees and he was born to them in France shortly before that date? Amelie is actually a quite unusual name amongst London's Huguenots, so it seems fairly good circumstantial evidence that he gave a child this name. The other alternative is he was a new refugee in the 1750's. Either way since neither he or the suspected parents seem to have joined Threadneedle Street their coming over doesn't seem to have left a trace. The tesmoignage registers for these other churches generally don't exist.

The other normal route to find out a place of origin in France is through the charity records, but no trace of them there either. Arguably they could be on the Royal Bounty lists 1730-60 if they came over then (held at the Huguenot Library in London), but these became less detailed after the 1720's. Names are only given for the 'first estate' by the 1750's the landowning aristocratic classes, and even in the 1720's children were not named, and place of origin in France only occasionally given. I don't hold out much hope there either if I'm honest.

If he was born in France between 1730-1760, he should have a baptism record, as you already know even Protestant children were given Catholic baptism, but without a centralised search index, finding him is no easy task. Cannot find any trace of him on French Huguenot sites such as Jean Paul Roelly's index.

[John1935]

Thanks Richard
Does look like needle in an invisible haystack job!! There was a Jean Macaire on a Denization form, but which one and from where ?

So Susanna had a sister, any brothers? Don't think I would try and follow 'Clarks' - as bad as Woods there are thousands of them - or Macaires - there aren't any, when you want them!

Best

John

[richarde1979]

As far as I can see John, Joseph Palmer and Elizabeth Vatin had at least four children, two baptised in the French church, two in the English parish church:

Joseph Antoine Palmer born 20 February 1790, baptised 14th March 1790 Threadneedle Street French Huguenot

Elizabeth Magdalen Palmer, born 29 June 1793 baptised 4 Aug 1793 St Matthew's, Bethnal Green

Sarah Palmer, born 5 July 1795, baptised 16 Nov 1808 St Matthew's, Bethnal Green

Susanne Palmer born 2 January 1805, baptised 8th February 1805 Threadneedle Street French Huguenot

[John1935]

Thanks Again
Was Uncle Daniel Godfather to any of them by chance ?

Best

John

[richarde1979]

Only the Threadneedle baptisms recorded the godparents names, so he may have been at St Matthew's, but no he wasn't in the French church. Anthony Vatin was godfather to the boy there, either his uncle or grandad, and Joseph Palmer stood as godfather to his own daughter  there, which was not uncommon in the French church.

[John1935]

Final shot on the Vatin family - notice that Antony Jnr's second wife was -Elizabeth Louisa Lawson what relationship was Susanne (Joseph Palmer's daughter) Lawson to her?

Any further history on Joseph Antoine Palmer or Susanne's son (as mentioned in the application for charity)

Lastly any ideas as to the work of old Antoine (being in Steward Street was he also involved in weaving ?)

All help and suggestions gratefully received as usual

Best

John