Joseph Norman HAYWARD

[Breakey]

Just wondering if anyone else out there is researching Joseph Norman Hayward born 1877 in Calne Wiltshire, he married his cousin Emily Edith Wood in 1905 in Leyton Essex. I have him and his family on the 1911 Census in Tottenham - when he is a postman - however i lose him after that... There is a death certificate for a Joseph Norman Hayward in 1946 Bradford, but i am not sure it is him  I can't find a death record for his wife and the death in Bradford was registered by Geoffrey Hayward (son) But i can't find a birth record for Geoffrey with Emily Edith Wood as the Mother....
Joseph is a bit of a mystery to me, so any help would be appreciated 

[fastfusion]

hi

i think your 5a77 on birth is correct,   as well i think 4a187 is correct , and the same with 9b48 for the death.


best i can offer

 

[JaneyCanuck]

edited to match fastfusion's edit so no longer needed


For the people in question here, it's entirely possible that they were estranged and one or both of them had children with another partner, which could account for the informant of death, and in which case it would also not be unusual for Emily's death to be registered under the new partner's surname.

[Breakey]

I am beginning to think you are right Janey, perhaps Joseph and Emily parted company and they simply started a new life with different partners.... In which case i don't suppose i will ever track down Joseph's son Geoffrey 
Thanks for your help to those that replied 

[JaneyCanuck]

In my editing (there had been a bit of too-personal info posted about someone too young anyhow) I removed a mention of someone who would match the location of the death certificate you have -- a birth in Bradford in 1927. That person has died; in the death records you see that his middle name was the mother's surname. There is a previous marriage in Bradford that matches those surnames, and the groom wasn't Joseph N, so there doesn't seem to be a match. I just thought I'd point it out so you could ponder it.

[Breakey]

Thanks Janey - I did find the record you are referring to and i did discount it... Joseph always used his middle name, he led an adventurous life, he joined the navy, then he joined the army (he served with my grandfather) after the army he joined the Post Office (with my grandfather) anyway he always gave Norman as his middle name - it was his grandmothers surname and i think he was rather proud to bear it. The relationship between my grandad and Joe was confirmed when grandad married Joe's sister! Sadly all those involved died many years ago so i have nobody to ask for information. It does look as if the estrangement theory is likely, especially as i am unable to find anything on Emily.
Once again, thanks for your help.

[JaneyCanuck]

Hm, but what if he altered his middle name to be devious? Or, of course, changed his whole name in order to marry again.

There's a Hayward-Harrison birth in West Ham in 1918 (Anc'y helpfully has it as Marrison). And a Joseph C Hayward married Harrison in 1920 in Shoreditch, with a Hayward-Harrison birth in Shoreditch in 1922 (probably died 1925 Hackney). There's a Hayward-Harrison marriage in Hereford in 1913, but otherwise no marriage that accounts reasonably for that West Ham birth (barring remarriage for the bride, of course, always a good possibility post-WWI), and there are Hayward-Harrison births in Hereford in 1916 and 1923. The 1920 marriage could be Joseph Charles Hayward 1881 Hereford or 1883 Islington or 1894 Holborn ...

I wondered about a son who went by a middle name, but there are no Hayward-Wood births with middle initial G before 1928ish either.

The only marriage with the surnames of the 1927 birth that could fit, for time and place, was in Wortley in 1917 - there's also a birth 1921 Wortley. The wife had an unusual name (I have one in my tree) ... Oh aargh, that's a mistranscribed Nellie at Anc'y; far too many born in Yorkshire 1880-1900, so impossible to identify a remarriage or death.

Your JNH is the only person who accounts at all for the death you have, according to the births index, so it really has to be him.

I dunno, I think I'd look at the 1927 birth, 1962 marriage, 1994 death and perhaps the 1917 marriage, all in Bradford. Joseph may have loved his middle name, but if he had relocated and was marrying bigamously he might have chosen a whole new one, or he might not have married and simply partnered and had a child.

The electoral roll shows a person by the name of the wife in the 1962 marriage (i.e. who could be the widow of the 1927 birth / 1994 death person) living in Bradford to 2013. I don't see a matching telephone listing (the one in Bradford with the same initial is a different person, from a match on the ER). If you really want to solve the mystery of the informant on the death certificate, that person might be able to rule him in/out.

[Breakey]

My you have put a lot of effort in to helping me - i really do appreciate it 
I believe that i may have found Joe's wife Emily, there is a marriage record that would match in 1951 in Swindon - where i know her family lived. I have looked for a death cert for this lady and her husband and have found records that would match them in Swindon - the lady's birth would match with Emily... so i think i may take the chance and order the marriage cert... If it does turn out to be her then at least that part will be solved - by the way, Joe and Emily were first cousins so you can see why i am keen to find Emily as well - i am related to both of them
I have looked for the son Geoffrey, he was living in a certain city in Warwickshire at the time of his Fathers death, there is a death cert in that city for a Geoffrey Hayward - it gives his date of birth and also a middle name (which is a surname) I looked for a birth that would match him, but can't find one - thinking sideways, i looked for one with Geoffrey but with the 'middle' name as surname - and found a record that matched - the Mothers surname/maiden name being the same as the child's surname... hardly conclusive, and certainly not evidence, but something for me to ponder...
I will also look at the suggestions you have put forward... It would be great to break through this particular brickwall 

[JaneyCanuck]

Aha, that is an interesting match, especially in view of the place of birth. The "certain city" part was an important piece of info. And a marriage there too, not long before Joseph's death. And then two births, one with a unique name, who is on the ER -- name, spouse and child (who has an identifying middle name), in that city, to a couple of years ago (longer ago for the child).

Good luck!