Author Topic: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674  (Read 5659 times)

Offline Zacktyr

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
  • My little paperweight!
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 07 June 15 21:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,

Correct, there is no record of Thomas having had a daughter named Ann and there was no baptism for Robert amongst the register that I have as I do not have the parish register but only the Bishop's.

It is possible to calculate Robert's anticipated birth year as being sometime around 1642/3, which would put it smack at the commencement of the Interregnum, for which the parish registers are required for searching.  This timeframe is based on the age of 29 years given by Robert on his marriage licence of 1672. He may well have been 1 or 2 years older or younger than stated at that time so some flexibility in birth year is required.

While Faversham may eventually play into your family, I do have a very full index of the registers of that parish that I completed several years ago and have found no Robert being baptised in that parish.  Likewise, Ospringe, Preston-next-Faversham, Throwley, Eastling, Badlesmere, Sheldwich, and Selling.  In all of these instances, I do have the parish registers and have indexed the whole of the civil war and Interregnum periods for each parish.

However, upon second look at my index of Charing I find under the surname spelling of REYNER a baptism for a Thomas son of John on 26 January 1622/23 (O.S.). I think is very likely the Thomas that appears for two baptisms in the early 1670s at Charing.  And there is an early baptism for a Robert [spelled Roberth] Raynerd at Charing during 1578/9 (O.S.) but no parents' names are recorded.  What may be this Robert's marriage appears in the Canterbury Marriage Licences by J. M. Cowper, vol. 1, as follows:

Rayner, Robert, of Chart Magna, maltman and Elizabeth Clarcke, s.p., v. At Kingsnorth.  Repent Clarcke of Chart Mag., linen weaver, bonds. Aug. 10, 1614.

Both Great Chart and Kingsnorth are in the vicinity of Charing.

There were also large contingents of Rayners at Ashford and Lenham from mid-1570s up to  the late 1590s and into the 1600s, continuing at Ashford beyond that time but not at Lenham.

So, I think that perhaps you need to discover what events took place at Charing during the 1641/2-1660 period before looking farther afield.  I don't know if you are familiar with the LDS Family History Centres or not, but the Charing parish registers can be rented on microfilm from the library and sent to a FHC near you.  The register microfilm number would be 2228358 but there is another filming (not as extensive in years or events) on 1473748 Item 3.  To find a centre close to you go to https://familysearch.org/locations/centerlocator?cid=hp2-1047.  I have found the locator to be sometimes tempermental and not perform a search.  If that happens to you send them a quick email via the link in the top right-hand corner.  Unfortunately, Findmypast only has burials for Charing spanning 1790-1867 and they are not available on FreeREG or familysearch.org.

I hope this helps somewhat. 

Just an aside, do you have any connection to the William Rayner who married Pamela Nutt during 1835 at Faversham?  William Rayner was allegedly born circa 1812-1816 most likely at Oare.  Their children range in relationship to me from 2nd cousins to 5th cousins.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

Wow you have been busy! I am pretty sure that the Ann born 1674 is my Ann. I take it the registers show no record of Thomas having a daughter named Ann though?

Did the registers give any sign of Robert's baptism or burial?

Incidentally I've recently been doing some work on Rayners in Folkestone. Some of these seem to have moved to the Faversham area in the late 1590s and early 1600s so there may be an early link there as well.

Many Thanks again for your help

Matt
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,747
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #10 on: Monday 08 June 15 02:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Susan

I been looking through some old notes I made on the Rayner family and think I have found Robert's christening. I have a note of a Robert born in Charing to Robert and Margaret in 1643 which would fit the timeframe exactly.  I don't have Robert and Margaret's marriage or any records of other children or their burials.

I have also found a large number of Rayner entries in the parishes of Boughton under Blean and Selling.

The lot in Folkestone and Faversham could still be related to those in Charing but I am less sure about that unless the link is further back.

I have a whole list of Rayner wills to look at too so hopefully they will shed some light on the puzzle.

Matt

Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,747
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #11 on: Friday 12 May 17 22:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt D.,

Since my original posts in 2013 I've transcribed the whole of Charing BTs and can find no evidence to support a second Anne having been born to a Thomas and Mary Rayner (any surname spelling) at Charing.  What does appear are a series of one-off burials, two independent marriages and a cluster of baptisms in the 1660s-1680s.  There are then two distinct clusters of baptisms, which suggests that possibly either two brothers - Thomas and Robert, Thomas being older than Robert , or, Thomas being Robert's father with Thomas and family moving into Charing sometime during the civil war and Interregnum period.  The marriage of Robert Rayner of Charing and Mary Browne, also of Charing took place pursuant to licence granted Dec 23, 1672.  I now have the the licence transcribed as well and include that transcript, below.  So, if the Anne Rayner baptised in 1674 is likely your ancestress, then her father must have been Robert, not Thomas.  Thomas vanishes from the parish after the second baptism on 10 Mar 1672.  I have also included the whole list of Rayner events from Charing, in chronological order so you can see the progression of families in Charing.

First the marriage licence:
Rayner, Robert, of Charing, yeoman, ba[tchelor], 29, and Mary Brown, s.p. [of the same place], sp[inste]r, 18, whose father being dead, her mother, Margt. Chapman, consents. At S. Andrew, Cant. Thos. Chapman of Charing, innholder, bonds. Dec. 23, 1672.

Second the extracts from the Bishop's Transcripts - lacks the civil war and Interregnum period:
1st entry of a Rayner at Charing -
SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Judith      DBL   28 Oct   1619   do John      Charing   BT
RAYNER   Elizabeth      DBL   20 Nov   1631   wife of John   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   05 Nov   1632         Charing   BT

Grom: PHILPOT   Alexander Bride: RAYNER   Elizabeth     Evt: Marr   09 Nov 1635   Charing   BT

SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAINER   Stephen      DBL   12 Nov   1639         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Susanna      DBL   02 May   1664   do Robert   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   08 Dec   1668         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Thomas      C   16 Jan   1670   Thomas/nwn   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Mary      C   10 Mar   1672   Thomas/Mary   Charing   BT

then Thomas disappears and Robert appears

RAYNER   Elizabeth      C   01 Sep   1673   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Anne      C   04 Oct   1674   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   George      DBL   24 Jul   1675         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Richard      C   23 Dec   1677   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

Groom: ODIERNE   John   Bride: RAYNES   Anne   Evt: Marr 30 Sep 1681 Charing BT


SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUS   PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Frances      C   28 Oct   1683   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

I've been going through my notes on Anne Rayner again and I was wondering what DBL stood for in this post you left in 2015. Are they christening dates?

Hope you can help

Matt

Offline Zacktyr

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
  • My little paperweight!
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 13 May 17 07:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,

DBL signifies the burial date.
C signifies the christening date.

I hope this clarifies the dates.

Sincerely,
Susan
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE


Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,747
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 13 May 17 20:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,

DBL signifies the burial date.
C signifies the christening date.

I hope this clarifies the dates.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

Thanks for that. I thought it was burial but seeing DBL instead of Bur confused me lol.

I've obtained a couple of wills for the Rayner family now so I'll add the details from these to the post soon.

Matt