Author Topic: Grahams of Kilkeel  (Read 33269 times)

Offline dermotb

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel - Thomas Graham
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 01 February 15 06:15 GMT (UK) »
Another Kilkeel snippet from the Dundalk Democrat, Aug 31, 1850. This may or may not be the Thomas Graham who was the uncle of John Graham and was living with the family at the time of the 1901 census (aged 73) - although if it is him, he would have been only 22 in 1850.




Offline Aughnahoory

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 04 February 15 17:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi I was doing research into a Willie Graham because as the Orange Hall in Kilkeel is being knocked down I came into posession of its old minute books.

There were about 17 names of members who served in WW1 and I took it upon myself to find out as much as I could about each one

Willie our lodge member was a son of John Graham and like his father was listed as a shoemaker. He was taken prisoner by the Germans in 1918. Its a fastening story as he was just approaching his 16th birthday when they captured him

I put it on our website plus there's links to the International Red Cross site where they recorded his POW info.

https://aughnahoorylol343b.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/private-willie-graham/

We also had a Private Uriah Graham a member of the Connaught Rangers but i'm not sure they were related.

https://aughnahoorylol343b.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/private-uriah-graham/

Theres an interesting tale I heard about one branch of the clan Graham when I was researching this, as they were allegedly Scottish outlaws and when things became too hot for them in their native Scotland they fled to Ulster and changed their name to Maharg which is Graham (Their original name) backwards in order to stay one step ahead of the pursuing authorities. In the traditional Scottish way this also became Mcharg for some.

Hope this helps

Offline dermotb

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 04 February 15 22:26 GMT (UK) »
See my comment a couple of items earlier - there was a transcription error in the 1911 census record. William was actually 10 years older than shown in the extract. I've provided a link to the census webpage, and if you look at the scan of the actual form (at the bottom of the page), you'll clearly see the error.

Offline Aughnahoory

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 05 February 15 11:56 GMT (UK) »
Willie told the Germans that his birth date which they recorded in 1918 from what he told them himself was Wednesday 22nd of July 1903, but your mention of the census correction would tie in better with the Ulster Volunteer Force records for the period where Willie recorded his age as 21 years old. I dismissed this as many young boys of the period lied about their ages so they coul.d join up. The UVF were the anti home rule forerunner of the Ulster 36th Division which Willie became a member of

German POW record book below:-
http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/2867628/1872/24094/


Offline dermotb

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel
« Reply #49 on: Thursday 05 February 15 12:48 GMT (UK) »
It's very easy to resolve this.

Look at the 1901 census, where William is recorded as age 9, and that clinches it.

After all, he could hardly be shown in a 1901 census that took place before he was supposedly born in 1903, could he?

Further, I think the date in the German records is 23/7/92, not 22/7/03. 1892 would fit nicely and make everything make up.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel
« Reply #50 on: Thursday 05 February 15 12:55 GMT (UK) »
Haven't read through all the posts on this thread again but there's a birth registration for William Graham 23 July 1891 Kilkeel district with mother's name Scott.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline dermotb

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel
« Reply #51 on: Thursday 05 February 15 13:29 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I can only see that one, nothing in 1892. There is a very detailed Graham family tree on Ancestry, which also shows July 1891.

The German record definitely says 1892, but it's hardly authoritative, compared to a birth record.

Both the 1901 and 1911 censuses were taken at end of March, before his birthday in July, so age 9 in 1901 supports a birth year of 1891. He would then have been 19 at the 1911 census date, so the census figure of 18 is one year out.

But on balance, the 1891 date looks solid to me.


Offline Aughnahoory

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Re: Grahams of Kilkeel
« Reply #52 on: Thursday 05 February 15 16:26 GMT (UK) »
Looks like the UVF records are closer the mark here. It was there he was listed as being 21 when captured but its hard to make out the details from the photograph of the German record book. There were so many young chaps who falsified their records I thought perhaps Willie fell into that category and my initial check of the census seemed to confirm it.

The battle he was captured at was one of the first uses by the Germans of storm troopers. They deliberately bypassed strong points leaving them for troops following up behind them to take on. It proved their eventual undoing as after initial successes they by that stage of the war couldn't keep up replacing losses and the resources required.

The ground it raged over was largely the same area that the Battle of the Somme had been fought 2 years earlier and where the Ulster 36th Division of which Willie was a member had lost 5500 men in one day. In total the British army lost over 20,000 men that day 1st July 1916 it's biggest loss in battle ever recorded before or since.

Offline dermotb

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Grahams origins in Scotland
« Reply #53 on: Thursday 19 February 15 07:14 GMT (UK) »
I investigated how the Grahams got to Ireland, and put this together from several sources. I haven't confirmed all the "facts" below, but I thought it was worth posting as a signpost to some interesting research.

The origins of the Grahams seem to be largely Anglo-Saxon by origin. They lived on the border of England and Scotland, and were no angels. They had became "border reivers" (outlaws), raiding cattle and burning castles belonging to their sworn enemies.  But became worn down by the ever increasing success of the goverment forces and their local allies, they accepted they would have to move if they ever were to have a settled life again.

Most present day Graham's in Ireland stem from an extended family of that name who settled in White Park County Antrim in the early 1600's, having been banished as reivers from Scotland where they suffered from persecution  and certain death, as a law had been passed that anyone by the name of Graham were to be hanged summarily.

It is no coincidence that the most prevalent christian name of this Irish Graham Clan became James, after one of  six brothers, James, the others being, Josias, Alexander, Gawn, Samuel, David who set about creating a Grahamstown at beautiful Glenwherry, County Antrim, some half way between Ballymena and Larne. The significance of the name and the perpetuating of it in every generation of the family no doubt hinted that this was a branch of the famous Graham Clan of Sir James Graham,(1612-1650).