Birth of Eliza INGRAM

[maxene]

I am looking for the birth record of Eliza Ingram, born in about 1841 in Newtown, Montgomeryshire. Her parents were John and either Mary or Ann (maybe Mary Ann??) Ingram. She was in Hawthorne, Victoria, Australia by 1864 so I am guessing the family - or she- immigrated sometime between 1841 and 1865. I would appreciate ANY help. Maxene

[lizdb]

From freebmd -

Birth
Elizabeth Ingram
Apr/May/Jun 1841
New town Montgomery
Ref
27 119

[hanes teulu]

1841 Census (HO107  1436  5/15  23)

Ann Ingram, 40
Also listed in the household is an Elizabeth Ingram, age 2 mths (the Census was taken 6 Jun 1841)
Address - Church Street, Llanidloes, Long Bridge

FreeBMD has the death of a John Ingram, Sep Qtr 1840, Newtown, 27  75

[maxene]

Hi Hanes Teulu - thank you for your info. You have really helped me because I have not been sure of whether Eliza/Elizabeth came to Australia on her own or as part of a family unit. Your info re. John's death simplifies this for me. Thanks again, Maxene

[AMBLY]

This looks like the the 1841 family, in 1851:

1851: Plantation Row, Rhyming Iron Works, Bedwellty, Tredegar, Monmouthshire
HO107- P2448 / F382 / Pg70
Head: Anne INGRAM 52, widow, b Carno, Montgomeryshire
Dau: Mary INGRAM 32, unm, At Home, b Carno, Montgomeryshire
Son: David INGRAM 28, unm, Ostler, b Llandwian, Montgomeryshire
Son: Edward INGRAM 24, Coal Miner, b Llandwian, Montgomeryshire
Son: Richard INGRAM 19, Ostler, b Llandwian, Montgomeryshire
Son: Thomas INGRAM 14, Coal Miner, b Llandwian, Montgomeryshire
Dau: Elizabeth INGRAM 12, Scholar, b Llandwian, Montgomeryshire

(Note: David was not on the 1841 household but he looks like a Male Servant who was in another 1841 household).

From Family Search, this 'feels' a lot like that family...?
Baptisms: Parents Edward INGRAM & Ann
Elizabeth, 8 Jun 1821, Llandinam
David, 11 Dec 1823, Llandinam
Edward, 17 Jun 1827, Llanidloes
Ann, 14 Mar 1830, Llanidloes
Richard, 18 Nov 1832 , Llanidloes
Thomas, 28 May 1837, Llanidloes

Note the Elizabeth b 1821. It's possible she could have died and a subsequent daughter (b 1841) given the same name.   But....I wonder, could your Eliza have been the Elizabeth above - and perhaps was the illigitimate daughter of Mary, raised as Ann's daughter?

What is your source for Eliza's father's name as John?

Cheers
AMBLY

[maxene]

Hi Ambly,
John is listed as father on both the marriage and death certificates. I think she IS Elizabeth and families often shortened names, didn't they? The other possibility is that Ann married twice? I really appreciate your help. I'll keep digging and let you know if I find more. Thanks again, Maxene

[maxene]

Hi Ambly - I have had another thought...could Elizabeth (the older) have been Elizabeth Mary and then the younger Elizabeth have been named Elizabeth and called Eliza? It seems that John, the father, passed away before Eliza/Elizabeth's birth by a few months. I will have to try and manoeuvre my way around the UK records and see if I can find marriage record/records for Ann, the mother. I really appreciate your lateral thinking about Mary being potentially the mother. I will keep an open mind until I can find something definitive, if possible. Maxene

[Ruskie]

Buying that 1841 birth certificate might help. 

[maxene]

Thanks Ruskie - I'll take your advice. Maxene