STANLEY FLEMING BRAZELL - Help Needed badley please

[yattonharry]

Thank you very much Mabel, I have now found a further incidence of Rees Jones [well this one is Rees Jenkin Jones] being employed as Ystalyfera School as a Caretaker.  I assume it is my Rees Jones as I know that one of them was Caretaker at Ystalyfera School.

 

[Mabel Bagshawe]

It could be, although the address given when he is appointed to the post doesn't tally with the Canal terrace address (have you looked that up in 1911, might be helpful).  And the only person who normally seems to use the full name of Rees Jenkin Jones is a Minister based in Aberdare!

However, looking back through your previous information I'm not sure if we are on the right lines. Margaret Eunice is not the daughter of Rees Jones of Canal Terrace (and he was not born c1843, as you suggest). there is however a Rees Jones of the right age (b c1855) with mother Gwenllian, but father is not John! I am aware that names and relationships do get mixed up from that far back

[yattonharry]

I was about to look up Canal Terrace in 1911 but have got side tracked - as you do.  I am interested in the Rees Jones with father John, although diff.mother, please. 

Also found the Rees Jenkin Jones ex-minister which is, as you say, not mine.  I wonder if the newspapers got his name mixed in the job application, as they often did.  His brother carried the 2nd name of Jenkin and it could have been that they mixed the brothers up.

Cannot see where Daniel fits in, unless he had to be away from home, hospitalised or like, but then he had a son that he was about to meet. Mysteries!  This family is the last I need to do and it has taken me the longest.  I gave up, many years ago and did another branch,  when I found my gt grandfather's father's name was John Jones born Neath.  How I wish I had stuck it out as I had many more family living then.

If you think I am doing this backwards, then you are correct. I followed my gt grandfather William back in time,  to what I believe are his parents, John and Gwenllian, with their family unit. As there is now no one  to ask, I had to work forward in time to discover Rees and his brother John Jenkin Jones.  Their mother Gwenllian died at what I believe was John's home.

 'Death occured on 1st June 1887 at her son's house, Ynisnudw,Llanguick in District of Pontadawe. Gwenllian was 78 years of age and the widow of John Jones, General Labourer. She died of Old age, certified by G. Griffiths, L.R.C.A : Informant Jenkin X Jones, son in attendance at Ynisnudw, Llanguick.  Registered on 2nd June 1887'

Thank you so much for your kind help.  You and Dawn have been wonderful.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

I think that is Ynismedw, not Ynisnudw.

What I said I'd found was a Rees Jones of the right age as the one living later at 25 Canal St, i.e. born c1855 with mother Gwenllian but father of a different name [Llewelyn] - not father John and different mother, as you suggest. He also has a brother Daniel of about the right age as the chap who fell into the canal - but no William.

I think Margaret Eunice's father was also called Daniel - however as he is not at home in 1901 or 1911 I can't trace him back to connect him with anyone else.

is there any family history of World War One casualties? My candidate for Margaret Eunice has an older brother Philip Rees who was killed.

[dawnsh]

You could also take into consideration switching Margaret Eunice's name around for census purposes and see if she is known as Eunice.

Jenkin Jones may really be John Jenkin Jones.

I had a look at Canal Street in 1911 census and there are many families with the same surnames. ie Jones, Davies, Evans etc typically Welsh surnames.

Without following the 1911 census and electoral registers through to the entry Jill posted earlier, it is not out of the realms of all possibilities that the Rees and Daniel found by Mabel in the newspaper report are just people with the same name combinations and nothing to do with the family Jill is looking for.

The other disadvantage of using the electoral registers is that family relationships and ages are not mentioned, likewise marital status so is is sometimes not possioble to work out the family relationships of those appearing together on the registers when in fact there is no relationship and people are living together in a 'lodging' capacity.

[yattonharry]

Hi there Dawn,
Somewhere I have seen that Jenkin takes his father's name sometime after his death and becomes Jenkin John Jones.  Have been hunting for this document and now cannot find it.  I have another instance in another of my Welsh families where this happens, so it maybe a Welsh custom.

I do agree with you about the electoral rolls and it could be pure co-incidence that Daniel was mentioned vaguely to me but I have never seen sight of him until Mabel's newspaper turned up.

I have checked through my work and feel that I do have the correct family unit in John and Gwenllian. Just looked again at the 1861 census    William   Jones    20  MASON born 1840 Son   Male   Cadoxton   Glamorgan   Wales. see 1861 RG9/4093  folio 95 verso page 13.

My William was a mason and builder in the Rhondda, so I feel that fits. His father was deceased when he married, which proved correct by marriage cert, census and father's death cert.  Wm was missing from the Cadoxton census in 1871 but he is then, [and shown in census] in Tonypandy.

I have also found the details that my cousin [my mother's cousin] told me. [Mary is the baby]

One attendee at A. Mary’s funeral was Rees JONES who was a Caretaker
of Ystalyfera County School. He lived in the School House. He had only one child,
dau Maggie a school teacher dec'd and she married a Councillor dec'd – they had no children.

Rees had a brother? called John or Daniel? and he lived in Pontadawe.  He was caretaker of the Public Hall, Pontadawe. He also kept a pub called the ‘Smith Arms’, just outside Pontadawe.  His children were:

Maggie Jones Ystradowen, School teacher. Lived in Railway Tce Ystradowen with
her blind brother Dick.

You can see that facts have been mixed up here and no dates were discovered either.

Attached image regarding my gt grandmother's death.  Note the typo as newspaper has this as 88 whereas she was 39.  This shows my great grandfather's occupation.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

In PMs it is clear Fryswith Jones is our working backward point, who was married to William Jones of Cadoxton

I've been looking at the Smiths Arms in Ystalyfera on welsh newspapers online and found references to the landlord Evan Morgan in the 1910s, so was a little unsure, until I found reference to Private Tommy John Jones, son of Mrs Morgan, Smiths Arms, Ystalyfera going to the front.

Interestingly her oldest daughter (unnamed) is married to a Rees Albert Jones (butcher of Pwllbach)

THis is the Smith Arms family of 1901

Evan Morgan    47
Margaret A Morgan    35
Joanna Jones    15 - step daughter
Maggie Jones    13 - step daughter
Johanny J Jones    11 - step son [presumably Tommy John]
William Che Morgan    7
Morgan Morgan    5
Evan S Morgan    2
Martha M Morgan    1
Mary Morgan    56
Annie Rowlands    22

RG13, 5064, 109, 22

In 1891, Joanna and Maggie are with their grandparents at Smyrna Hall (which is a few doors down from the Smiths Arms)

John Jones    62 - b Llandybie, Carms
Magraret Jones    61 - b Llangadog, Carms
Margaret A Rees    16 - servant
Joana Jones    6
Margaret Jones    3

I have also found mention of a marriage in 1883 between T J Jones, son of John Jones, Smyrna Hall and Margaret A Clee

[dawnsh]

what date is this?

One attendee at A. Mary’s funeral was Rees JONES who was a Caretaker
of Ystalyfera County School. He lived in the School House. He had only one child,
dau Maggie a school teacher dec'd and she married a Councillor dec'd – they had no children.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

I htink the funeral was in 1936, from some stuff I've had via PM. the deceased was Mary A Thomas, nee Jones, daughter of William and Ffryswith