Births in Germany and Poland

[Marianthompson47]

Hello Alan, Yes Bendzin is in WOJCIECHOW.

Also SIMON Warman was known as SAMEEL, and was jewish, as were my family.

They have never moved to England.


I wish I had asked more questions all those years ago but I never thought that I would need to know about them later in life.

Thanks anyway for your links.  It is much appreciated.

[JustinL]

Hello Marian,

Which Polish authorities have you and your Polish colleague contacted?

The registry office in Bedzin holds birth, marriage and death records for the periods 1895-1926; 1928-1942. Older records have been transferred to the state archives in Katowice.

Here are the contact details for the registry office:

Urząd Stanu Cywilnego Będzin
11-go Listopada 20
42-500 Będzin
Poland
Telefon: (32) 267 91 30

Your mother was born in Halle an der Saale near Leipzig. Her birth should have been registered in the registry office (Standesamt) in Halle. The contact details are:

Abteilung Standesamt (33.4)
Marktplatz 1
06108 Halle (Saale)
Germany
Tel. +49 345 221-4623

Here's the website: http://www.halle.de/de/Rathaus-Stadtrat/Digitales-Rathaus/Dienstleistungen/?RecID=472

The surname Warman does not appear amongst the older records of Bedzin, many of which are online. However, it does appear in mumerous records from the Lublin district. I'm investigating further.

Rgds, Justin

PS One other point of clarity. Poland was part of the Russian Empire at the outbreak of WWI. The Russian invaded East Prussia which was part of the German Empire (the NE of modern Poland). The Eastern Front came to within about 70 miles of Bedzin. That was probably close enough to trigger an exodus.

[Marianthompson47]

Hello Justin,

Thank you so much for your extensive research and I will respond to the best of my ability.

I am not sure who my Polish colleague contacted in Poland.  He asked me for money to cover his calls and told me that he unfortunately could not give me any good news, other than it seems my family did not originate from there (?)

I contacted ARCHIVUM PANSTWOWE in Katowice.
Also URZAD STANU in Bedzin, which you also have listed.
Thirdly, ARCHIWUM GLOWNE in WARSZAWA.

None of the above were able to help me.

I will write to the Standesamt in Halle to find out if they can help me but I have a strong feeling I have already done this.  I need to get out all the letters (copies) I have sent and the responses I
have received.

I thank you also Justin for the information you gave me regarding Prussia and the invasion around the period of the first World War.

I await with anticipation any further information you will be able to give me.

Thanks again!

Marian

[JustinL]

Hello Marian,

It's been a busy week.

Exactly what did the USC in Bedzin say or write?

In the meantime, I have established that the Warman family recorded in the 1939 census in Bedzin came from Nowy Korczyn about 150km east of Bedzin.

The surname Warman appears in the Lublin district, particularly in the triangle Lublin-Chelm-Zamosc, from the 1830s onwards.

Take care, Justin

[JustinL]

Hello Marian,

You'll be able to understand the following better than I do ...

'Ce dictionnaire a été constitué par Claude GEUDEVERT qui a exploré toutes les sources relatives aux Juifs originaires de partout dans le monde, qui ont habité ou bien qui ont transité par la Belgique et principalement par Bruxelles avant de se diriger vers d'autres pays et d'autres continents. Les informations provenant des différentes Archives de Bruxelles ont été complétées par d'autres envoyées de France et des Pays-Bas.'

http://www.genami.org/Fichier-belge/lettre-w.php

You'll notice that the dictionary records somebody with the surname Warman born in 1904 (!) in Lubarsow (PL). The record should probably read Lubartow, a town some 20 km north of Lublin.

Added: Ista Warman, b. 1904 in Lubartow, was deported from Belgium to Auschwitz in 1942. She was murdered there.

Did I understand you correctly that Frieda's mother was also living with the Avemargs in Brussels? Maybe, she was the person born in Przytyk in 1885.

Added: Icek Warman, b. 1885 Przytyk, was also murdered in Auschwitz.

Frieda, Gertrud and their mother went into hiding during the war. Did they all survive? What was their mother called?

Justin

[Marianthompson47]

Hello Justin,

Thank you for your great effort to help me Justin.

French is my mother tongue and so I found it easy to read.

I understand from conversations I had with my mother Ellinor that she was living with her mother and aunt, as well as her grand mother somewhere in Brussels at the time of the second world war, so in 1939.

I have in my possession various papers and especially one issued by a Census in Brussels (unfortunately no date given) which lists My mother (Ellinor), her mother (Frieda) and father (Otto) all living together at an address in Brussels.  No sign of her aunt or grand mother.   

During the second world war, my mother always told me she was living in Brussels and that her close family were living in hiding in the attic as the female side of the family were Jewish.  It appears that someone had found out about their hiding and denounced them to the Gestapo who were about to come and arrest them.  However the war ended shortly after and they all lived in peace.

I suspect Frieda's mother must have lived with her/or Frieda's sister Gertrud as she was elderly and a widow.

My grand mother gave birth to my mother at a very young age (she was 16) and so my mother's birth would have been listed under the name Ellinor Warman(n) as opposed to Avemarg, the name she took on when Otto married her mother on 30th June 1931 in Halle auf Saale, East Germany.
My mother did her schooling in Germany.  I am not sure why they moved to Brussels (?)

All of the above is so very complicated but I thank you for all your research which it seems does not apply to them.

Thanks again Justin. Marian

[Marianthompson47]

Hello again Justin,

I forgot to add that all the letters received from Poland are in Polish.  I asked my Polish colleague the meaning of them and he replied they said the persons were unknown to have been born there.........

[Marianthompson47]

Hi again Justin,

Looking through my various papers, I have come across a piece of information which I had not seen before.

It seems that my great grandmother's name was Helen(a) FRIEDLER, yet again a German name and I have  a date of birth of 1890 with LU between brackets ....., and presumably this was her maiden name (?)  I believe I will never know.

Regards - Marian

[JustinL]

Hello Marian,

LU? I can't explain that. What document have you found?

Did Helena die in Belgium? Would it not be possible to obtain the death certificate? It may provide some additional clues.

The Standesamt in Haale must surely be able to provide a marriage certificate for Otto and Frieda.

I think it would be a very good idea for you to contact GenAmi http://www.genami.org/en/, who may be able to suggest other avenues of research in Brussels.

Otto probably felt compelled to leave Nazi Germany after the implementation of the so-called Nuremberg Racial Laws (in German: Nürnberger Rassengesetzen) in 1935. Being married to a Jewess, he was in breach of the first law 'to protect German blood and honour' and could have been found guilty of Rassenschande, i.e. defiling his race. He would have faced imprisonment and/or hard labour.

I have made enquiries about the completeness of the birth records in Bedzin's registry office. I shall make some more.

We'll get to the bottom of this somehow.

Happy Easter.

Justin