Kirtland nee Green – Flack. Related??? +

[Nifty1]

I recetly made contact with sombodey that I think may be distantly related through my grandmother 
Ethel Elizabeth Kirtland nee Green
I know that she lived for many years in Clewer (Windsor) but am uncertain about her life movemets.

 born in Dec 1889 and died at Winkfield in Nov 1967
Married to Leonard kirtland 1885 1956.

I have avery old  photo of a richard Green who I always assumed was her father
the only Richard G I found was Richard Green b. 1885 d.1925 and onder who it could be.
I would like to know if he was related to A.W. Green below.

Could anybody please try to see if there is a connection?
And maybe they could throw some light on contacts question.

My contact says
'my great-grandfather (Ernest Ebenezer Flack) and grandfathers (Ernest Flack) butcher shop Clewer?

The most recent address I have for the Flack family is the 1911 Census, when they were still in London. They went  to Canada and stayed between 1912 and 1913, then returned to England. My grandfather served in WW1. My grandparents were married in Clewer as per their marriage certificate,
Marriage Certificate: 3 Sep 1922. Ernest Flack, 24, Bachelor, Butcher of Clewer. Father, Ernest Flack, Butcher. Dorothy Hilda May Green, 24, Spinster. Father, Arthur William Green, Builder. Witnesses: Ernest Flack and Monica Evelyn Green (Dorothy's sister)

I would also like to know more about my grandmother Dorothy Hilda May Green’s family – her paternal grandfather (William Green) and father (Arthur William Green of Lavington Villa, Clewer) were builders – “William Green and Son”. William's wife was Lucy Ellen Weston, the daughter of William Weston and Charlotte Dudley, who ran “The Wolf” pub in about 1861.

My grandmother’s mother was Caroline Sarah Matthews. Caroline’s parents were James Matthews and Mary Ann Merritt. James and Mary Ann were both born in Market Lavington. I suspect this might be why Arthur William Green and Caroline Sarah Matthews home was called Lavington Villa.

Caroline was born 16 Feb 1877 in Westminster, London. Her birth certificate reads: 46 Cobourg Buildings, Cobourg Row Westminster. Father: James Matthews (Police Constable A Division). Mother: Mary Anne Matthews formerly Merritt. Registered 5 Mar 1877

1881 Census - 69 Coburg Building: James 32, Police Constable. Wife Mary A. 32. James and Mary Anne born in Wilts. Market Lavington. Arthur G. 3, and Caroline 4 born Middlesex, Westminster.

By 1891, her family was in Clewer: 1891 Census: 87 Bexley Street. James 42 , Metro Police Constable. Mary Ann 42, Cathrine (Caroline) Sarah 14, Arthur George 13, Hilda Mary 8. James and Mary Ann born Wilts, Market Lavington. Children born London, Westminster.

I would be interested in learning more about James. A distant relative has posted information that James was a police constable at Windsor Castle. Their home in London was within walking distance of Buckingham Palace, and I read somewhere that the police at Windsor were seconded from London.

I appreciate any help you can give me.

[silvery]

What you really need is your grandmother's birth certificate

from freebmd http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

March quarter 1890, district Eton, vol 3a page 682
Elizabeth Ethel Green

This would give the names of her parents to try and track her parents and any other family.   And what was the name of her father on her marriage cert?

[Mabel Bagshawe]

This is a possible for Elizabeth Ethel in 1891, in Battersea

Henry Green  27 - horse keeper b Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green  26 - b Windsor
Elizth Ethel Green  1 - b Slough
Elizth Russell  62 - mother in law b Windsor
Albert Harry Russell  28 - "son in law" b Windsor
   
Ref RG12, piece 435, folio 83, page 28

The Russells are based in Clewer prior to 1891 - I'm not doing too well working forwards with the Green household, apart from Mary Ethel's mother, who is back in Clewer.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Bit of a tangled web

Marriages Mar 1900  Wolverhampton 6b 750
Green, Mary Ethel
Tomkins,  Austin Herbert   

1901 - Colchester Barracks
Austin Tompkins 33 - corporal b Wimbourne, Staffs
Mary Tompkins    34 - b Windsor
Elizabeth Tompkins 11 - b Stoke Poges "Worcestershire"

Ref  RG13, 1707, 127, 24.

Marriages Dec 1904   Paddington 1a 75
Tomkins, Mary Ethel       
Redrup, Richard

1911
Richard & Mary redrup and Ethel Green are back in Clewer

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7LK-63G
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7LK-63P
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7LK-635

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Just to confirm it's the same Mary Ethel - this is the marriage entry showing her to be widowed, and nee Russell

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXP1-BYL

Austin died Q1 1904

Finding Henry Green's death might be a bit more challenging - and I can't spot him working backward. If the 1891 entry is correct, I'm not sure he has any connection to Arthur William

[Mabel Bagshawe]

when Richard and Mary married on 20 Nov 1904, they gave their address as Walterton Road, Paddington. Ethel Elizabeth Green was one of the witnesses.

I did wonder if your photo of Richard Green was actually Richard Redrup - or her step father and birth  father's names have been merged. There are two options for Richard's death - 1926 and 1928

[Nifty1]

Embarrassed look.
 I might have made a mistake with the date of Richards birth is OP. It could have been b. 1855. I wonder if that makes any difference to possibilities?

[Mark Tegg]

Hi,  Just thought I would add this if it help,s.
Arthur william green ,builder from Clewer remarried in 1928 to my great grandmother Helen louise Tegg (cousins). Kind regards Mark Tegg

[dawnsh]

Hi Mark

Welcome to Rootschat 

Just to let you know, nifty should received emails notifications that we have posted and hopefully come back soon.

Dawn