COMPLETED WITH MANY, MANY THANKS - My only hope - anyone love a challenge?

[susan hemmings]

Can anyone help with this -  I have been banging my head against the proverbial for a number of years:

My x times ancestor Thomas William Gillbe married as below

Margaret Dawson   1843   Jul-Aug-Sep        St Giles    London, Middlesex
Thomas William Gillbe   1843   Jul-Aug-Sep        St Giles    London, Middlesex

On the marriage certificate Margaret's dad is listed as Edward Dawson(Tailor or Sailor - I think it is Tailor).  It does not say deceased.

In 1851 Mr and Mrs Gillbe are living together and also with them is a Mary Riles (Mother in Law).  Assuming she is Thomas' MIL that would make Margaret's maiden name be Riles or Riley.  But her child Mary Ann Gillbe (my gt gt grandma) birth certificate states mother's maiden name as Dawson.
I now wonder if she is Thomas' mother, not mil.  But then her name would be Gillbe.  HELP.....

I cannot make any sense of it.
I have looked at so many census records trying to find Mary Dawson (Riles/Riley) and a remarriage between a Riles/Riley and Dawson. I have scoured every birth, baptism and goodness knows what else.  I cannot make any sense of it.   I have given myself a headache.

A fresh brain is what is needed.  Mine is fuddled.  I am very grateful for any help.

1851 Census showing the Gillbe (although mistranscribed as Gilby) family.  DOUBLE HELP.....
Mary Riles (or Riley) at the end born Ireland. 

Yours well and truly stuck. 

[avm228]

Hi - are you looking for help with this entry?

Thomas on the 1851 was born Newmarket, Suffolk.

The family's in St Giles again in 1861: RG9/169/63/6.

Thomas is in St Giles as a widower in 1881: RG11/327/54/48.

[susan hemmings]

Thank you so much for that.

It is the Riles / Riley connection and the fact that I cannot locate Edward Dawson born around the turn of the century anywhere before or after 1843 when Margaret married Thomas.
Margaret was born in 1823 approx and as you rightly say died in 1873 leaving Thomas a widow in 1881. 

Blooming Irish records. 

Thank you again

Susan

[avm228]

Ah - all becoming clearer now you have amended your first post

It definitely looks to me like Mary Riley in 1851. But that doesn't mean Margaret's maiden name would necessarily be Riley; Mary might well have remarried since Margaret came along.

Have Margaret and/or Mary been found in 1841?

[susan hemmings]

Here is Mary, Margaret and William Dawson 1841

No sign of Edward.... ugh.

[avm228]

Who were the witnesses to the 1843 marriage?

[avm228]

Another thought - sorry!

I know from Scottish research that one sometimes sees women reverting to their maiden names in widowhood.  Whether this was customary for Irish women I simply don't know - if so it might explain why you can't trace an 1841-1851 remarriage to a Mr Riley, if Riley was in fact her maiden name?

[susan hemmings]

Now that's a thought.

Witnesses to the 1843 marriage:

William Beckwith (or Bickwith)
Willm Taylor (or Gaylor) the first letter is half missing

Thank you again

[groom]

I doubt whether it was a second marriage for Margaret as she was only 20 when she married William.

I think avm228's idea is probably the correct one, Mary Dawson remarried to a Mr Riley. Just because it doesn't say deceased it doesn't necessarily mean Edward was still alive in 1843, especially as he is missing from the 1841 census. I have several certificates where I know for certain that the father has died, but it doesn't say so. I think a lot depends whether the person filling in the certificate actually asked if they were dead or not.