William Coutts: Dundee, 1800s

[loobylooayr]

Finished too early

Meant to add - Agnes's middle name of Wanlass is the married surname of Isabel Coutts (third daughter of Alexander Coutts and Isabel Leith). Isabel married David Wanlass.
They are listed on the 1841 Census with Isabel Leith at Rossie Street Arbroath...I think this is on the first page of this thread.
So it looks like little Agnes could have been named after her paternal aunt and her husband.

Sarah marrying Allardice just weeks after her mother's death doesn't surprise me. She might not have known about the death....Is her mother down as deceased on the cert.
But even if she was aware of her mum passing, I think she would just have gone ahead with the marriage. Life was too short to mourn for long.

As for her use of both names Douglas/ Mclarty. i wonder if she called herself Douglas for a while after her dad died, then reverted again to her dad's name Mclarty.

looby

[Fide et Fortitudine]

I have also studied the words again scrawled above Mary Campbell's name and still can't make them out. I wondered if perhaps it was yet another name!! Then I wondered if it meant that Mary Campbell and Peter Douglas were not married. But I cannot decipher it.

Hi Looby, I queried it on the Handwriting forum:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=644290.new;topicseen#new
I agree with "maiden name - .........er", i.e. Mary Campbell & Peter Douglas were married.

Could Campbell be a 2nd married name for Mary?  She might have been married before Peter and then been widowed.  It would help to have the other name deciphered but it's hard.   

If daughter Sarah Douglas (Snr) was b. circa 1776 at Kilmartin, Argyll (abt. 79 in 1855 at time of death), I'm putting Peter Douglas's & Mary Campbell's marriage between 1760s and early 1780s.  Difficult to find OPR marriage registers for that time though. 

However, I did find the marriage banns for Sarah Douglas (Snr) and Alexander McLarty, and..... surprise, surprise, they were married at GLASGOW!   
31/8/1802.  The banns were registered at Craignish, Argyll but the marriage took place at Lanarck, in Glasgow City. 

So, Alexander McLarty and his parents, Donald & Mary McLarty (cousins?!) might have been from the Glasgow area.  Or, Alex McL. went there looking for work from Argyll - I'm not sure how he would have met the Kilmartin/Craignish girl, SD, if he was a Glaswegian.

Found the christenings for all the direct McLarty children (Mary, Donald, Duncan, and Alexander) at Craignish (so the couple married in Glasgow but went to live in Craignish) but I can't find Sarah Douglas, Jnr's birth reg anywhere - and she's my line!  Estimated b. year 1815, all the censuses have her birth at Craignish, but I can't find her christening.  Maybe christened elsewhere?  Glasgow? 

It seems strange that the parents would baptise and register all the children except one (including the one after Sarah's birth).  Maybe it's just been lost.   

Maybe, maybe, maybe...!   

Thanks for all your help, Looby. 

[Fide et Fortitudine]

I see, yes, Agnes Wanlass Coutts might have been named after her aunt Isabel and uncle David.  If Isabel is indeed her aunt, i.e. if she is William Coutts's sister - which would confirm his parents!  I'll have to look more into the Wanlasses in Arbroath.   

I went went back and checked the marriage reg for Sarah Allardice.  You were right, she could not have known about her mother's death - both her parents are not listed as deceased.  Father: Alexander Douglas, a Tailor.  Mother:  Sarah Campbell. 

This marriage reg also tells that Sarah Allardice was illiterate - she signs her name with an X.

There was certainly a lot of name swapping going on!  She's on the 1841 census as Sarah Coutts, by 1844 she's back to McLarty; in 1847 she's using Douglas; in 1851 she's back to Coutts; in 1855 she remarries as Douglas; on the 1861 census she's Allasdice and in 1871 she dies as an Allardice!  I'm amazed we found her at all, really! 

I'm thinking it's looking more likely William Coutts, Snr. met Sarah around the Glasgow area rather than Craignish, given that her parents (Sarah & Alex) were married there, and we know at least one of the sons was born at Greenock. 

Found one McLarty household at Greenock on the 1841 census - I was hoping I might find William Coutts on it as a son-in-law or boarder, but no.  There's a 45-year-old woman ---- McLarty (first name missing), a Marker, with her 3 children:  Peter (? not clear), Alexander, and Jean.  All the children were born at Greenock, the mum wasn't.  Could this be Mary, Sarah's elder sister, christened at Craignish 1803?  The age is off but then they usually are!

There's another McLarty house at Glasgow in 1841 with an 80-year-old Mrs. McLardy of independent means and a 25-year-old Mary McLardy - a dressmaker.  Living with a Mrs. Muir and a child Muir.  This one looks promising:  it could be 'granny Mary McLarty' (wife of Donald, mother of Alexander who married Sarah, Snr.) and her grand-daughter Mary, who is our Sarah's elder sister.  Again, the ages are off (Mary is approx. 7 years older than her sister Sarah, and Sarah is also 25 on the '41 census).  Again, we can't rely on the ages. 

I've forgotten what my point was in all this!    

[loobylooayr]

Hiya,

Sometimes you feel like your head's doing to explode with all the names, places and dates !

Mary McLarty (Sarah Coutts/Allardice's older sister) was married to a David Clark. It is their two children who are living with Sarah Douglas snr at Craignish on the 1841 Census.
The Clarks has a child Alexander who was born at Craignish 21/3/1829
There was also a child Andrew Clark born to a couple with their names 7/4/1836 at Greenock. I couldn't find that child on the 1841 Census. And the daughter Sarah must have been born circa 1833 but I couldn't find a birth for (must be something about that name...no -one registered Sarah!)

I would tend to think the McLarty's were an Argyllshire family too. Alexander the tailor maybe went to Glasgow for work?

According to Scotland's People site there were 367 McLarty's on the 1841 Census.
176 of them were in Argyllshire.....only 26 in Lanarkshire.
There were 41 Mclarty's in Ayrshire (my neck of the woods!).

But I have I feeling Alexander's roots are probably around Craignish just like Sarah snr.

I'll keep nosing...

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Just thinking you grt grt grandfather Alexander was born in Greenock in approx 1838.
Mary Clark's son was born there in April 1838.
The two sisters Mary and Sarah may have been at Greenock with their husbands at the same time.
I couldn't find Mary Clark on 1841 Census but she must be there somewhere .

Looby

[Fide et Fortitudine]

Hi Looby,

Yes, indeed.  I found the Mary McLarty/David Clark OPR christenings for their children, 4 so far:
- Alexander Clark, b. 1829 at Glassary, Argyll
- Donald Clark, b. 1830 at Glassary
- Sarah Clark, couldn't find her birth reg either, but she's on 1841 census, b. circa 1833 Argyll
- Andrew Clark, b. 1836 at Greenock 

Meanwhile also found on the 1881 census freesearch, dwelling at Lergoligan, Craignish:
Archibald McLarty, 37, married, b. Craignish
Ann McLarty, 35, married, b. Craignish
Robert Anderson, 14, unmarried, b. Ballachulish, Argyll

Archibald might be the offspring of one of the Douglas-McLarty sons (Donald, Duncan & Alex)? 

This is the same house where Sarah Douglas, Snr. died in 1855, the same house where the Douglas-McLarty children were born (Mary, Donald, Duncan, McLarty and possibly our Sarah McLarty/Coutts) and the same house where Alexander McLarty, Snr. was living before he married Sarah Douglas - according to the marriage banns.  The spelling varies slightly on all the records, and the handwriting is difficult to read, but in context it's clear that the house is called Lerigoligan or phonetic variations thereof. 

Amazingly, this house still exists!  Renovated and extended of course:
http://www.lerigoligan.co.uk/Lerigoligan/Lerigoligan.html 
It's about half a mile NE of Craignish Village Hall/village of Ardfern, on Loch Craignish.

This is where my ancestors lived from 1802, definitely up to 1855, possibly later.   

So you're right, Alexander McLarty's roots are around Craignish, since he was living at Lerigoligan just before he married Sarah in 1802.   So his parents Donald and Mary McLarty were probably living there too, possibly going back before 1802.  The modern house website says it was originally a croft house, which suggests Donald McLarty, Snr. might have been a crofter in the late 1700s.  Found out that the AF50 collection on the National Archives of Scotland has lists of crofts, with names of tenants, so that's another avenue to explore and go back even further in time!   

I think it's highly likely the two sisters Mary and Sarah McLarty were both living in Greenock around 1838, maybe staying together & their husbands or other relatives.  Pity there's no census for the 1830s!  I couldn't find Mary McLarty/Clark on the 1841 census either, but will keep looking.  Can't find her death cert. either. 

Lots of options to look into now.  Poor old William Coutts, Snr., our Murroes man, has got sidetracked! 

 

[loobylooayr]

Well done with your finds.
It's all very interesting. So the McLarty's roots are in Craignish!

Think I could have found son Donald on the 1841 Census will need to research a bit more before posting . He is in Craignish but it could be a cousin?

Mary Clark is such a common name..not going to be easy but she must be there somewhere

We might still find more on William Coutts...

Looby

[breaky]

(Had a few SP credits to spare and joined in the search).  Would a small place like Lerigoligan have had two tailors named Alexander with a wife whose maiden name was Douglas?

Lerigoligan:  OPR Birth 21st September 1812  ref 508/00 0010 - a daughter born to Alexander MacLarty "taylor in Lerigoligan" and Marrion Douglas his wife.  Baptism on the 22nd November. Child named Marrion.

I can't find this birth on the Familysearch site...

[loobylooayr]

Hello breaky,
Well done.
Think you've found the jackpot!

Fide, I think breaky has found your missing Sarah McLarty.
The names Marion/Marrion seem to be interchangeable with Sarah on some of the Islands and in Highland areas.
I googled it - http://www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Marion.html 

So this OPR birth is Sarah/McLarty/Douglas/Coutts/Allardice 's. Trust Sarah to have been registered as Marrion!
So only one Alexander McLarty , a tailor and his wife Marrion (Sarah) Douglas I think.

Looby