William Coutts: Dundee, 1800s

[loobylooayr]

 Fide
According to Family Search there is a Mary Clark on the 1841 Census at Greenock - her age is 35, which fits in with a 1806 birth, and she was not born in Renfrewshire but somewhere else in Scotland. There is also an Andrew Clark in Greenock (can't tell if he's with this Mary) born Renfrewshire  circa 1837, which fits with Mary Clark's child born in Greenock.
Freecen website does not have entire Greenock Census transcribed. This would have to be checked on SP and I have no credits left . Sorry.

Looby

[Fide et Fortitudine]

WOW!    Jackpot baby! 

Baby Marrion Douglas Mclarty/Maclarty (aka Sarah) is only my g-g-g grandmother whose year & place of birth I've been looking for for the past 2 years!  She was the missing link! 

Looby and Breaky, you have just joined up all the dots for 8 generations over 200 years! 

You've also given me the real name of my g-g-g-g grandmother, the tailor's wife, born in Kilmartin, Argyll circa 1776 (but I can't find anything on her ... yet). 

I did find baby Marrion on FamilySearch under Marrion Maclarty, b. 1812, Craignish, as well as the OPR Baptism.

I can't thank you enough.  Do you get paid for this?!  You should be!   

Looby, I've seen the ---- Mclarty household on the 1841 census too - 45-year-old-woman, first name unknown, a Marker (?), living with with 3 children:  Peter (? ink smudged) McLarty (10), Alexander McLarty (6) and Jean McLarty (9) - the latter is on the next page.  The children were born in Renfrewshire, the adult wasn't.  Possible!  Our Mary (Marrion's sister) was baptised in 1803 though, i.e. actually 38 in 1841.  Still possible.   

Also looking promising is the birth of one Alexander Campbell Mclarty on FamilySearch:
birth:   26 Jul 1817   
christening:   30 Jul 1817   WEST OR OLD PARISH, GREENOCK, RENFREW, SCOTLAND
residence:   1817   Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Son of Donald Mclarty & Jean or Jane Mclarty - possibly our Marrion Mclarty's brother & sister-in-law. 
They also had son named Archibald, b. 2/4/1844 Craignish, who might be the same Archibald living at Lerigoligan on the 1881 census!

Oh wow, what a day.  I need to sit down now!   

[Fide et Fortitudine]

How about this:

On 30 May 1835, at Abbey Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland, a Marion Mclarty married one William Langmuir.  No other details on FamilySearch.

Could this be the same person as our missing William Coutts?!   

I can't take the excitement ... 

[Fide et Fortitudine]

1841 Census on SP -

Living at Manse Lane, Greenock:
Archibald McLarty (60), a carpenter, born Argyllshire
Catherine McLarty (50), his wife, born Argyllshire
Sarah McLarty (15), born Renfrewshire

Manse Lane became Hamilton Gate.  William Coutts is at The Vennel this year, which became the High Street.  According to Googlemaps, these two streets are 0.3 miles apart, same neighbourhood.  Meanwhile, the (?) McLarty woman (poss. Mary - Marrion's sister) with the 3 children are on Nicolson Street, also just round the corner.  All within the Parish of Greenock West (Old).

The young Sarah Mclarty, b. Renfrewshire, probably a niece of our Sarah/Marrion Mclarty:
The only Sarah Mclarty I can find b. in that county around that time is a Sarah McLardy, b. 24/4/1821, daughter of one Malcom McLardy, a lawyer, and his wife, Janet Turnbull, baptised in the Parish of Greenock East.  (On SP OPRs.)

Meanwhile, the elderly Archibald & Catherine - probably this Sarah's grandparents:
If the census age is correct, Archibald was born around 1781.
Found one Archibald Mclarty, b. 24/7/1782 CRAIGNISH, son of a Malcom Mclarty.  No mother's name given.  Another Archibald Maclarty, b. 20/9/1779 GLASSARY, son of another Malcom Maclarty and Mary Mclarty.  (On FamilySearch.)

We know Mary Mclarty Clark (Marrion's sister) was living in Glassary around 1828-1830 because she married David Clark there and 2 of the Clark children were born there.  The same Mary whose later son Andrew was born at Greenock.  (OPR Births 15/5/1836 Greenock New or Middle).  Young Andrew's birth reg. is significant because it reveals his father's job and David Clark was (drumroll) ... a FLAXDRESSER!   

Soooo, it's looking very likely William Coutts knew David Clark from work in Greenock in the mid-1830s, and met Sarah/Marrion through David's family. Hence William is living/working very near the McLarties from the Craignish/Glassary area about 6 years later (while wife Sarah/Marrion is in Arbroath looking after the kids).

I'm glad I got that off my chest!  Now if only I could find William and Marrion's marriage cert. and the birth regs of William Jnr. and Alexander ...

[loobylooayr]

Have only had time for a quick look at some of the info you have posted Fide as I'm going out soon.
But just a quick post to say I don't think the woman with 3 kids you have found in Greenock living near William Coutts is Mary McLarty/Clark.
There is a couple who married 1825 in Greenock, Peter Mclarty/Mclardy and Isabella Mcdougall with three births registered in Greenock-
Rabina Glassford Mclarty 9/11/1825
Jean Stewart Mclardy 29/6/1832
Alexander Mclarty 10/6/1835.
Is the smudged Peter definitely the son and not the husband? The age could have been filled out wrongly.

Did you find the Andrew Clark born circa 1837 on the Census at Greenock? I wondered if Mary would be with him and for some reason her two older surviving children are back in Craignish with their grandmother.
Good finding Andrew's birth by the way - and imagine another Flaxdresser!

Will do some more digging later,
Looby

[Fide et Fortitudine]

On an another note, something has happened to my avatar.  It's looking a lot darker than the original image I sent.  I understand the problem with pixels and all that.  I have tried looking for your technical support link on this website but can't find it.  Any hints, much appreciated.

Still on the Coutts case!   

[Fide et Fortitudine]

Hi Looby

Looks like that avatar's been fixed!  Thanks to the techies. 

Back on the subject of the elusive William Coutts (Snr), I went back and checked the marriage certs of his surviving children with Sarah.  The eldest son (William Jnr) married first, on 25 November 1859 (to a Lydia Baird); Alexander and Agnes married later.  William Coutts, Snr. was already deceased at the time of William Jnr's marriage.  So .... at least that gives us a definite date range for William's death: March 1851-December 1859 (he's alive on the 3rd March '51 census, and listed as married to Sarah).

But what happens to William after March 1851, before Sarah's re-marriage in 1855, and before his son William's marriage in 1859?   

I've rechecked death searches for 1851-59: pre-statutory, statutory and Catholic burials, for all counties in Scotland.  Zilch.  On the OPR deaths up to 1854, there's only the Tanner, d. 1852 Arbroath, and he was born in Barry, and he married Ann Skea, so it can't be him. The only other William Coutts deaths for that period is a guy in The Shetlands, and another one in Banff, miles away in Aberdeenshire.  I doubt it's either of them.  1854-59 deaths, there's only a one-month old baby of the same name, who died in Farnell, Angus in 1858. 

My other wacky thought is: could William Coutts, Snr. have joined the merchant navy in the 1850s and died at sea?  Hence his death record has been lost.  I'm thinking that his son William Jnr. did leave the flax industry and become a merchant sailor (he was married at Guthrie Port) and sons tended to follow in their dads' footsteps ...  It's a long shot.   

Back on the McLarty family trail, I have downloaded the 1841 census which places the 60-year-old Sarah Douglas (i.e. Sarah McLarty's widowed mother) at Ler(i)goligan, Craignish with the two Clark grandchildren, aged 10 and 8 (Mary's children).  The ink on Clark is smudged, but FreeCen confirms the names are Clark.  Next to Sarah Douglas's name there is a coding I don't know the meaning of, under the column for "Uninhabited or Building".  The code looks like "IU" or "LU". Next to that, under the "Inhabited" column there's a tick. 

Not sure what happens to elderly Sarah, Snr on the 1851 census.  We know she's still alive this year, circa aged 75 - her death is certified at 1855.  Found a 77-year-old Sarah Douglas living at Stranraer, but this one was born in Wigtown, Wigtownshire - not our Argyll granny.

The good news is:  I found the David Clark-Mary McLarty household in 1841!
In the quoad sacra parish of St. Thomas, Greenock, at Taylors Clop*(?):

- David Clark, 42, Merchant Seaman - not born in Renfrewshire
- Mary McLarty, 37, not born in Renfrewshire
- Duncan Clark, 6, born in county
- Andrew Clark, 4, born in county
- Margaret Clark, 2, born in county

This establishes that William Coutts's sister-in-law & family and he were in the same place at the same time. 

I think "Taylors Clop*" might be Taylor's Close, which had an entrance on Hamilton Street.  Found an old photo here:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/98346459@N00/3899931540/in/set-72157607018434378
Taylor's Close became Wallace Place, 0.3 miles from the High Street (formerly The Vennel) where our William Coutts was!   

Could St. Thomas's Parish be the same church where William Jnr. & Alexander might have been baptised circa 1833 and 1838? 

Not a fruitless day anyway!   











 

[Fide et Fortitudine]

PS - Those kids living with Granny Sarah Douglas back in Craignish in 1841 are Alexander, 10 (the eldest) and Sarah, 8.  I think the "Duncan" Clark (6) living with his parents in Greenock that year might be the same boy as Donald, baptised of the same parents 1/11/1830 at Glassary, Argyll, or Donald died, and Duncan was born around 1835 in Renfrewshire. 

[loobylooayr]

Hiya,
Could be that William went to sea and died; his death being unrecorded. But probably a greater chance that he died in Arbroath and with a handful of children to support Sarah couldn't afford a headstone.
As there was no requirement to record deaths/burials many parishes just didn't bother plus a lot of records have been lost. Also William's family might not have been able to afford the fee to hire the mortcloth which could mean his death was never written down in the Parish Records. Sadly for you, there is probably no record to find.
There is always a chance the record has been mistranscribed but SP are very good.

I know I'm probably stating the obvious here but did you check for Sarah in 1851 Census as Marrion?
I would reckon if she died in Argyll in 1855 she would be there during 1851 Census. It did state on her death cert. that she's resided in the Kilmartin area since childhood? Have noticed entries on censuses where a woman is recorded as Widow Smith/Jones. Another long shot but could she be Widow Douglas/Mclarty?

And well done finding the Clarks in Greenock. That links William a bit closer to them. I think there were a lot of Mclarty's in Greenock at this time. Could be extended family.
Think you are right about the child Donald Clark - he is more than likely dead and Duncan is a different child. Remember Mary has 3 brothers - a Donald , a Duncan and an Alexander. So Donald and Duncan were not interchangable names within the family.

Are you still trying to link your William Coutts with the other Coutts in Arbroath? I think by proccess of elimination you can be 99% sure he is the son of Alexander Coutts and Isabel Leith/Leath. It would just be nice to have that eureka moment when you find complete proof.

Keep digging

Looby