Author Topic: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872  (Read 4326 times)

Offline hasta

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #18 on: Friday 19 April 13 16:27 BST (UK) »
The Irish times notice is terrible quality but I'm pretty sure it says he died "at his residence 47 Hardwick Street after a short but severe illness"

Offline myluck!

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #19 on: Friday 19 April 13 17:00 BST (UK) »
That would rule out the Cork death then!
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline Desmond

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #20 on: Friday 19 April 13 19:01 BST (UK) »
@ My luck

just checked my transcript from Irish Times and it indeed does give an address of 47 Hardwicke Street but doesnt say he died there .

@Hasta .Can I ask where you viewed the actual original as would love to see it

Offline shanew147

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #21 on: Friday 19 April 13 19:12 BST (UK) »
@ My luck

just checked my transcript from Irish Times and it indeed does give an address of 47 Hardwicke Street but doesnt say he died there .

@Hasta .Can I ask where you viewed the actual original as would love to see it

The Irish Times Archive is available on their (subscription) website - with images.

see : http://www.irishtimes.com/search/archive.html

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Offline Desmond

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #22 on: Friday 26 April 13 23:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Shanew, yes managed to see Irish Times posting.Jeremiah did die at home in Dublin and very suddenly by looks of things .
So in summary I have no death registered for him but as you suggested I need to contact Gro as it may be indexed wrong.
I visited Glasnevin at weekend and enquired after the grave as hwas buriedin an unmarked grave. I was told that there were 4 others also in the grave (around same period) and 3 of them were named LYNE which ironically is same maiden name as his mother .I am now wondering if there is any connection


Offline Xotan

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #23 on: Monday 29 April 13 20:47 BST (UK) »
I'm just catching up on family research after a while away from it and my eye was caught by this thread.

There are some matters here that seem to link into my family.  My Gt. Aunt Polly (Mary) Shortall (née Coyle) lived with her husband, (latterly Sir) Patrick Coyle in 47 Hardwicke Street, and as far as I knew, the house was given them by her father, Patrick Coyle as a wedding present.  If true, a handsome present!  That, at least, is the story handed down.)  My paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Ann Monks, Polly's sister, lived in No. 46.  It was she who told me that Polly had lived next door.  There was never any indication that Shortalls did not own the house.  Quite the contrary. 

Polly died in 1915 while the family were still living at No. 47; and Sir Patrick in 1925, but by then he seems to have moved to Clontarf.

The Monks family also had property in Buckingham Street, Nos 3 & 4.   My Gt. uncle Nicholas Monks was left a share in the properties in my Gt Gt grandfathers will of 1902. The odd thing is that he (gt. uncle) died in 1928, but in No.37.

Desmond, if your forebears lived in No. 47 Hardwicke Street and 4 Buckingham Street it raises an interesting situation.  My personal recollection of Hardwicke Street is of horrible tenements that had permanently open doors, no lighting of common areas, poor sewage.  Clearly it was not always like that, and No. 46 at the Frederick street end was always single family house.  And from personal recollection, No. 47, unlike other most other houses in the street, always had a locked halldoor.  I assumed on this basis that it too was a family house.  I should perhaps add that I can recall Hardwicke Street going back into the late 1940s when air raid shelters occupied the centre of the roadway.

I am at a loss to explain how Shortalls and your family lived in the same house.  Shortall, who was some kind of builder, was far from being a poor man.  But this does not fit with the fact that they lived there even after Shortall would have moved out.  Perhaps one or the other family owned the house and leased a floor, as Shane has touched upon.

LATER

I have looked at the 1901 and 1911 Censuses and I find I have to revise, yet again, information that was passed down through the family as misleading or plain wrong.  Yes, the Shortalls did live in 47, who the house belonged to I cannot say for certain.  Certainly there were others living there, although on what basis they or the Shortalls shared the house, I cannot say at this stage - another fact to be established.  Shortall is describer as a Builder, and at this stage he had not yet got his knighthood.

The connection of Buckingham Street AND Hardwicke Street with both our families is curious.  This posting doesn't really throw any light on your original question, but it does suggest at some kind of link.

I have a picture of 47 Hardwicke Street of which I can let you have a copy, if you wish  The houses (46 & 47) were double-fronted, but were only one room front to back.  They had basement kitchens and outside were the areas overlooked directly by the footpath.  The areas, at street level had protective iron railings set into granite kerbs. Three granite steps supported by an arch over the area, leading to the front door.  Just outside the frontdoor there were shoe scrapers.  There were cellars that extended out under the footpath, and perhaps partly under the road too.  In my recollection those at 46 were used to store coal, which was delivered to the cellar through a manhole cover on the footpath.  They had two storeys above the ground floor.  No. 46, alas, no longer exists.  Dublin Corporation acquired most of the houses in the street for housing development in flats.  No. 46 was the last one they acquired.  It broke my grandmother's heart as she had lived there since she had married in 1901.

Offline Desmond

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #24 on: Monday 29 April 13 23:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Xotan-
many thanks for your reply- very very interesting.Some facts that I have :
I know that my gggrandfather Jeremiah Colclough lived in no 4 Buckingham St in 1870 and 1871(Thoms Directory). He married in 1871 and then moved to 47 Hardwicke St with his wife Bridget (nee Mc Cormick - I believe originally from Co MEATH).He had one son Patrick ( my great grandfather) born 17/3/1872.Jeremiah died in June 1872 but his wife remained in Hardwicke Street till 1900.She was listed in Thoms for the period 1873 to 1900.Patrick married in 1900 my ggreat grandmother Catherine Cahill from Naas and their son John Jeremiah was born in 1902(my grandfather).
The 1901 census shows Bridget in St Monicas nursing home in Belvedere Place.She died in 1906
The census also shows John Jeremiah and new wife Catherine in Derrynane Parade.They had 8 other childern and moved house a few times (Valentia Parade -Caledon Road-Church Road- Brendans Road (that I know off) and finally back to no 42 Hardwicke St in 1920 where Patrick died from ( shortly after birth of last daughter)

From what was passed down thro family(albeit sketchy),Jeremiah had come from Cork/Kerry (and from earlier thread ,I may have found his parents in BANTRY 1829.We are told he may have had some wealth which passed to his wife when he died young.We believe he may have worked as a Land agent clerk- a caligropher  ( wasnt Patrick Shortall an builder/ architect?).Both Jeremiah and Bridget were buried in unmarked graves in Glasnevin

yes I agree with you ,it is a bit of a coincidence that 2 families were living around the same time or just after one another in the same houses .

Yes I would love for you to send a copy of your picture of 47 Hardwicke St. I have heard so much about it at this stage (can you private message it or post it here?)

I hope some of these facts can touch a cord with any of your research as our Jeremiah is a real mystery.
ie : we think he came from Cork/Kerry as Coakley - moved to Dublin as Colclough ,marries ,has a son and dies all within 12 months leaving very little info behind

many thanks again for your super post

Offline Desmond

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Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 30 April 13 19:08 BST (UK) »
Hi contacted the GRO offices today and they were very heplful .However they confirmed that Jeremiah death was not registered in 1872 so I am back to drawing board fort he time being. any one any other ideas?