Author Topic: CHANGE OF NAME  (Read 1279 times)

Offline scouser

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CHANGE OF NAME
« on: Sunday 21 April 13 16:35 BST (UK) »
Hi,

All my Grandfather Henry Lloyd Born Mansfield Father Thomas Lloyd Mother Annie Spouge they married Mansfield on
1891 Census 8 Padley Hill on 1901 Census 16 Furnace Hill Derbyshire tried to find his birth certificate no joy till he died. Left a Post Office book, Aunty had to send away for Certificate came back as Harry Johnson born Mansfield 1897 parents Thomas Johnson and Annie Spouge on Thomas Lloyd's Army records First World War said he was jailed for 1 month 1894 for Indecency on Highway anyone got any ideas ? Susan ;D
lloyd liverpool bowen liverpool hose liverpool aindow liverpool lloyd brampton spouge notts

Offline CaroleW

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 21 April 13 17:28 BST (UK) »
Hi

What surname are they under on the 1901 and 1911 censuses - Lloyd or Johnson

Have you researched Thomas Lloyd before marriage?  I have known a number of cases where an illegitimate man has alternated between his mothers maiden name (and therefore his birth surname) and the surname of a stepfather or biological father
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 April 13 17:42 BST (UK) »
In 1901 they are Lloyd and living in Chesterfield

Thomas Lloyd 33 b Shrewsbury Shropshire
Anne   27 b Clay Cross Derbyshire
Harry   4 b Mansfield Notts
Richard  1 b Chesterfield Derbyshire
RG13 Piece 3249 Folio 107 Page 38

 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 April 13 17:52 BST (UK) »
Are you sure the marriage was 1891?

In March qtr 1891 there is an Annie Spouge marriage in Mansfield but a male name is missing from the page

I have checked the full GRO index for Thomas Lloyd marriages in the same qtr but there are none with a Mansfield reference
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline scouser

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 21 April 13 18:07 BST (UK) »
i have the marriage certificate for them his full name is george thomas lloyd on certificate sorry i should of said he came from dawley shropshire father john mother martha gough susan
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 21 April 13 18:09 BST (UK) »
Knowing he was George Thomas is the most important when searching the GRO index - that is why I could not find a match under Thomas.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline scouser

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 21 April 13 18:19 BST (UK) »
sorry carole i didnt realise till i sent it x
lloyd liverpool bowen liverpool hose liverpool aindow liverpool lloyd brampton spouge notts

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 21 April 13 23:03 BST (UK) »
I luvs a mystery but not having to figure out what it is first! ;)

So we have in Mar Q 1891
Spouge    Annie         Mansfield    7b   86
Lloyd    George Thomas        Mansfield    7b   85

and he seems to be the one mistranscribed.

And in 1901 they are Lloyd, but their son was registered as Johnson, parents Thomas Johnson and Annie Spouge.

So it looks like George Thomas Lloyd was altering his identity for a bit. He may even have deserted after the conviction.

Problems with the military are very common reasons for name-shifting.
My gr-grfather on my mum's side unilaterally left the military after 5 years in India, about 1878, and changed his surname permanently -- married under the fake name in England, had kids under it in England and Australia, died under it in Canada. All his kids, and his sons' kids including my mum, and their sons' kids, and so on down, have a fake name.
My grandfather on my dad's side was thrown out of the military at the age of 16, around 1910, for dealing in stolen goods, and promptly changed his given names slightly and re-enrolled in the same regiment, and was in the army under the fake name all through WWI and until about 1925, when he came to Canada and went back to his own name (and apparently required that the British government reissue his medals under his real name!).

Indecency on highway -- he was probably drunk and couldn't find a loo! But punishments were harsh for the lower ranks in those days. And having a black mark on his military record could have made life in the civilian world difficult. So name changing was common.

-- edit -- I was confused -- this was a simple criminal offence in 1894, not having to do with the military -- ? I couldn't identify his WWI records.

George Thomas seems to have gotten over his concern by 1900 when his other son was born:
LLOYD    Richard         Chesterfield    7b   755

Why Johnson? would be the question. Probably no reason: it's a common name that would not make him stand out. I wonder whether it was a joking reference to his 1894 offence. ;)

It's interesting though that you say Harry was born in 1897, but the birth was registered in the april-may-june quarter of 1898. George Thomas may have been still apprehensive and put off registering the birth. I am pretty sure that my gr-grfather who left the army c1878 simply didn't register the birth of his first child after he married in the early 1880s, under any name at all.

... Although - there were two Harry Johnson births registered in Dec quarter 1896, and a Harry Louis Johnson in June quarter 1896 ... just wondering since Harry is shown as a full 4 yrs old in 1901 (and matching age in 1911).

I also wondered whether George Thomas and Annie might have had other children registered as Johnson who didn't survive to 1901 -- that could help date the period of the fake name. There were quite a few Johnsons who were born and died in infancy in the mid-1890s in Mansfield, however.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline larkspur

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Re: CHANGE OF NAME
« Reply #8 on: Monday 22 April 13 14:10 BST (UK) »
Baptism Mansfield
24-11-1896 Harry son of Thomas and Annie, abode 7 Frisby's Yard father a miner
marriage Mansfield
7-2-1891 George Thomas Lloyd and Annie Spouge
AREA, Nottinghamshire. Lincolnshire. Staffordshire. Leicestershire, Morayshire.
Paternal Line--An(t)(c)liff(e).Faulkner. Mayfield. Cant. Davison. Caunt. Trigg. Rawding. Buttery. Rayworth. Pepper. Otter. Whitworth. Gray. Calder. Laing.Wink. Wright. Jackson. Taylor.
Maternal Line--Linsey. Spicer. Corns. Judson. Greensmith. Steel. Woodford. Ellis. Wyan. Callis. Warriner. Rawlin. Merrin. Vale. Summerfield. Cartwright.
Husbands-Beckett. Heald. Pilkington. Arnold. Hall. Willows. Dring. Newcomb. Hawley