Trying to verify a marriage

[california dreamin]

Hi all
I'll try and keep this very brief because it is quite complicated.  A fellow researcher and I are trying to unravel a family tree for the Skinner family.  You will find many, many family trees for them on Ancestry (most incorrect).  Looking at the family starting  from Henry Skinner (b.1792 Brightling, Sussex) he allegedly married Mary Kemp* and had 9 children. Many of whom left England for Australia at various times.  We have parish records for their births, all in England, which do give a mother's name but only 'Mary' no maiden name. Also we have immigration ship manifest information and for some definite death details for their children. However, we have never been able to find a marriage for Henry & Mary KEMP.  New research seem to indicate that Henry was married to a Mary BISHOP whom he had his first four children with.  What we would like to do is find out who is the mother for the remainder -Mary Bishop or Kemp. 

Can anyone assist in trying to find a marriage for a Henry Skinner and a Mary Kemp?  We have had no luck.  My fellow researcher has found his marriage to a Mary Bishop in Ospringe, Kent in 1814 and I have details of his marriage to his second wife (or would she be the third?)  Sarah Mann in Sussex in 1843.

Parish register for his children do name him and his wife 'Mary' so herein lies the problem.  Who was the mother Bishop or Kemp.  Did he marry Mary Kemp or not?  Did Mary Bishop die or did he leave just her?  We already have lots of information on this family but are looking specifically for their marriage in order to confirm mother of Henry Skinner's children.  Many thanks. 

PS - Similar request has been put on the Australian boards

[sillgen]

The Sussex Marriage Index for pre 1837 marriages does not have a marriage for Henry Skinner to a Mary.

[sillgen]

SFHG records have a burial at Brightling for Mary Skinner age 24 in 1842.  No other details.

[sillgen]

And another burial for a Mary Skinner age 50 in the same year.   It also mentions Burwash and that is where Henry is in 1851 so more likely to be connected.   Might be worth your joining the SFHG and looking at all of these Skinner entries.

[sillgen]

http://www.sandh.me.uk/ssx1867/brightling1867.html

shows a Thomas Skinner in the Brightling directory.  Have you tried tracing him back to see if he is connected?
What clues on the marriage certificate to Sarah Mann?

[california dreamin]

Hi Sillgen

The Sussex Marriage Index for pre 1837 marriages does not have a marriage for Henry Skinner to a Mary.  Yes, thanks for double checking that.  We could not find one either.  We have also tried Kent where the family were for awhile and seem to have connections.

SFHG records have a burial at Brightling for Mary Skinner age 24 in 1842.  No other details
Yes, we know of her but have not been able to place her in the family.  Was too young to be either Mary Bishop or Mary Kemp.

And another burial for a Mary Skinner age 50 in the same year.   It also mentions Burwash and that is where Henry is in 1851 so more likely to be connected  Yes, we have always laboured under the impression that this is Mary Kemp... but we now think this could be Mary Bishop. But then what happened to the other Mary?


Might be worth your joining the SFHG and looking at all of these Skinner entries.  How in depth would their information be?

shows a Thomas Skinner in the Brightling directory.  Have you tried tracing him back to see if he is connected? No I haven't.   Henry and Mary *'s son Thomas immigrated to Australia in 1854 so am looking also for information in Australia that may lead me back to Henry and Mary *.  The Skinners were a huge family each child have over 8 children and naming them all after each other... you know the scenario.  So think would be a different Thomas.  Were also living in Southwark in 1851 prior to immigration.  Modified:  Just looked could be his uncle- also a Thomas but have not pursued information on him
What clues on the marriage certificate to Sarah Mann?  Not alot.  Married in 1843.  She was a widow.  In fact more anomaly's here.  On his first marriage to Mary Bishop he signed beautifully.  On his mc to Sarah - made his mark, as did the bride and witnesses.  Very odd.  Also, by 1861 Henry is a 'widower' living with his son in Kent.  However, I did find who I believe to be Sarah living with a married daughter still in Sussex.  I think the couple were estranged myself.

At the moment I am thinking - He married a Mary Bishop had first of his four children she either died or he left her.  Took up with a Mary Kemp, didn't marry her and had a further five children.  She died and then he married Sarah which ended unhappily.  But no proof of this.  Just me adding up 2+2 and making 5   

[jann]

Hi,

It's very likely that the beautiful signature on the certificate of his marriage to Mary Bishop was written by a clerk and not by  Mr. Skinner.

We tend to forget that at that time a sizeable portion of the population was illiterate and couldn't read or write their own names.

Jann

[california dreamin]

I do take your point but this family believe it or not was amazingly literate for their time.  Henry's father born in 1749 could sign his name! Perhaps read as well?  Maybe you're right and Henry missed out the reading and writing lessons?  But of Henry's eight surviving children four definitely could read and write (and one was a woman!) In fact we have a transcript of a letter from 1890 from one sibling in America to another family member in England.

"do thay keep raisen hops kent and sussex as thay used to do and how is the price no a days"  His spelling is  a bit dodgy I know...

[sillgen]

The signature question may depend on whether you looked at the original register or the Bishop's Transcript which is a copy by the vicar.  You can usually tell as the latter has the whole entry in the same hand.