Author Topic: Old Irish script on Census 1911  (Read 3360 times)

Offline Sinann

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Old Irish script on Census 1911
« on: Tuesday 23 April 13 18:45 BST (UK) »
Think I have the meaning more or less sussed out but I'd love to get the correct spelling of the Irish.
Sadly my Irish is woeful, the good old 'beat it into them' style of teaching didn't work for me, and the old style script isn't helping.

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003529025/

Sea(u)mus(??) Mac Giolla - James Gilmore
? - border!
? Románac - Roman Catholic
? &? - Read and Write
Ma? Scoile - School ?
Fear gan ? - Single!
Americá - America

Gave the transcriber quite a surprise I'd say  :D

Offline craggagh

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 23 April 13 19:20 BST (UK) »
Hello -

I would read it as Seamus MacGrolla ( not sure of the anglicised version) - boarder - R.C. - Read and write - 24 - School teacher - single - America - English and Irish.

craggagh.

Online heywood

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 23 April 13 19:31 BST (UK) »
Is it MacGiolla - McGill or Gill?
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Offline Sinann

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 23 April 13 20:00 BST (UK) »
I got Gilmore on Google but could be way off, I'm hoping to the Irish as well, I guess I could get it on a translator but would the spelling be the same?
Didn't they make changes when they introduced Modern Irish?

Also what do you think of Seamus, he seems to be spelling it with an u and should there be a fada on the e?


Offline Sonas

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 23 April 13 21:50 BST (UK) »
Seumas Mac Giolla
Bórdóir
Catoiliceach Romhánac - think this is spelled wrong
Leighim agus scriobhim
Maighistir scoile - school master
Fear gan posadh - single (literally, man without marriage)
Americá
Gaedhilg agus Bearla

He is missing fadas in a few places. He's using the old way of inserting the séimhiú (the letter h) by using a dot over the letter. I've just put in a 'h' here.

Loads and loads of the census returns filled out in Irish haven't been transcribed beyond the name (sometimes wrong of course). It's a bit of a disaster for anyone fruitlessly searching, especially for families in Gaeltacht areas.

Online heywood

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 23 April 13 21:55 BST (UK) »
My knowledge of Irish is so poor - I only have a cúpla focal but I am sure that there are experts out there to help  ;D There is no guarantee that any thing here is correct!
I go to an Irish class at times which I find extremely hard (am too old to learn) and my 'older' classmates (we just learn for pleasure) say that the old way of spelling was much better than the modern!
This is interesting and not very technical so I think I can understand it! The comparison between the scripts is good.
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/clogaelach.htm
I think the dots over the letters are now replaced with the 'h' as in 'bh,'mh' etc and result in those very long words which I find difficult to pronounce  ;D
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Sinann

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 24 April 13 16:39 BST (UK) »
That's great, I can work with that.
Thank you all
I was so busy trying to work out the letters I forgot about the dots thank you Sonas.

Good find on that web site heywood.

You look at these things at first and get confused it's only as other people point things out that the old memory starts to come to life and things fall into place.

I can understand people in the Gaeltacht filling out the return in Irish but I can't help but feel this guy was just being difficult.

Offline eadaoin

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 24 April 13 20:14 BST (UK) »
Not exactly being difficult.
In 1911, a number of people (2 or 3 families that I'm researching) filled out the Census in Irish, as a patriotic thing. Some of them were linked to the Irish Language movement, some were in various Home Rule groups, others just wanted to annoy the British authorities!

My father's family were learning Irish at the time (in Dublin) and used it quite a bit, even though they weren't fluent

eadaoin
Begg - Dublin, Limerick, Cardiff
Brady - Dublin
Breslin - Wexford, Dublin
Byrne - Wicklow
O'Hara - Wexford, Kingstown
McLoghlin - Roscommon
Lawlor - Meath, Dublin
Lynam - Meath and Renovo, Pennsylvania
Everard - Meath
Fagan - Dublin
Meyler/Myler - Wicklow
Gray - Derry, Waterford
Kavanagh - Limerick

Offline Sonas

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Re: Old Irish script on Census 1911
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 24 April 13 20:37 BST (UK) »
I'd agree with Eadaoin. The use of Irish fits in with the rising nationalism in the country, literary revival, organisations like Conradh na Gaeilge etc. The annoyance thing was probably one of the motivations why some women said their religion was suffragism on the 1911!

There are suggestions for translations of Mac Giolla on a Wiki page:
Mac Giolla (Giles)
 Mac Giolla (Gill, McGill, Magill, Page, Paige)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_name. Gilmore seems to be Mac Giolla Mhuire.

Fr Dinneen's dictionary was published at the beginning of the 20th century and can be handy for Irish of this era http://www.ucc.ie/celt/Dinneen1.pdf