Author Topic: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?  (Read 7144 times)

Offline jevanji

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Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« on: Saturday 27 April 13 20:50 BST (UK) »
I wonder if somebody could possibly point me in the right direction of where I could possibly find the parish records for Whitburn (1815)? I've managed to trace my Great-great-great-grandmother to Whitburn, however I only have her Christian name (Grace) and her year of birth (1816). So far a search of ScotlandsPeople website has revealed 1 catholic baptism in 1816 for somebody of the same christian name, and no other birth records on the site return any records based on her DOB and forename. The parish named however was 'Glasgow St Andrew's' and I wondered whether this was the correct record - can't be that easy!!

Since I'm not at all local to Whitburn any help you can provide would be really welcome.


Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 27 April 13 21:14 BST (UK) »
I wonder if somebody could possibly point me in the right direction of where I could possibly find the parish records for Whitburn (1815)? I've managed to trace my Great-great-great-grandmother to Whitburn, however I only have her Christian name (Grace) and her year of birth (1816). So far a search of ScotlandsPeople website has revealed 1 catholic baptism in 1816 for somebody of the same christian name, and no other birth records on the site return any records based on her DOB and forename. The parish named however was 'Glasgow St Andrew's' and I wondered whether this was the correct record - can't be that easy!!

Since I'm not at all local to Whitburn any help you can provide would be really welcome.

The parish records for Whitburn are in Scotland's People.

Where have you found the information you already have about Grace? What was the name of her husband? What were the names of her children, and when and where were they born?

It is quite likely that no record actually exists of Grace's baptism. This isn't at all unusual; there are lots of reasons why a baptism might not have been recorded, or, if it was, why the record might not have survived.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline jevanji

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 27 April 13 21:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Forfarian

Thanks for the info. As my original message said, I found this birth record on Scottish People, and there's only 1 recorded birth across all parish records of a 'Grace' between 1815 and 1816. All other information I have for her was obtained from census records and birth / death records for her children (I've check 1841 through to 1861 census records, and have identified that she died in 1865). She seems to have moved from Whitburn to Gateshead by 1838 as she has her first child Mary Dick (B 1838 - Durham) at this point and appears to also be married to Joseph Dick (B 1813 - Durham). I guess my next step is getting hold of one of her children's birth certificates to see if her maiden name is on there .... I was just hoping I could find something online first.

But it's good to know that the Scottish Parish records are on Scottish People - it will certainly help when I come to research my father's side of the family.  ;)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 27 April 13 22:07 BST (UK) »
As my original message said, I found this birth record on Scottish People, and there's only 1 recorded birth across all parish records of a 'Grace' between 1815 and 1816.
Just put that one on a mental shelf for the moment. It's highly unlikely to be the right Grace if she was born in Glasgow, although it's not impossible.

Quote
All other information I have for her was obtained from census records and birth / death records for her children (I've check 1841 through to 1861 census records, and have identified that she died in 1865). She seems to have moved from Whitburn to Gateshead by 1838 as she has her first child Mary Dick (B 1838 - Durham) at this point and appears to also be married to Joseph Dick (B 1813 - Durham). I guess my next step is getting hold of one of her children's birth certificates to see if her maiden name is on there .... I was just hoping I could find something online first.

I presume that what you found is the 1851 census showing Joseph, 38; Grace, 36; Mary, 13; Grace, 8; Catherine, 3 and Abigail, 1 at Whickham, Gateshead. The original is very faint, but I agree with the transcription of Grace senior's birthplace. You are very lucky, because it ought just to have said 'Scotland' so the enumerator should not have written 'Whitburn' in his book at all!

The International Genealogical Index at www.familysearch.org has a 'contributed' listing of the marriage of Joseph Dick to Grace Gullan in Edinburgh St Cuthberts on 4 January 1836. As it is 'contributed' rather than 'indexed' and it says that it was a 'patron submission' I wouldn't trust it unless and until I've seen the original document from which it was taken, though since they have upgraded mucked about with the Family Search web site it is all but impossible to track down the sources of 'submitted' listings, more's the pity. Ignore dates of birth listed in the IGI, they are just guesses based on the erroneous idea that a man is aged 25 and a woman 21 when they marry.

If you get one of the children's birth certificates I think it will tell you her former (i.e. maiden) name, but I'm never quite sure what English certificates do contain. I see that Abigail's birth was registered in the Gateshead registration district, and that the registers are now held by The Register Office, Civic Centre, Regent Street, Gateshead NE8 1HH, telephone 0191 433 3000, e-mail registeroffice@gateshead.gov.uk, web site http://online.gateshead.gov.uk/bmd/ - you could try an e-mail to them asking specifically if the maiden surname of Abigail's mother is Gullan or similar. Their reply will tell you if the (slightly dubious) Edinburgh marriage is the right one.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline anne_p

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 27 April 13 23:37 BST (UK) »
Can I butt in?
Whenever I spot a submitted Scottish entry on the IGI, I always check that it exists on Scotlands People, who have sourced this from the OPR original.

The marriage between Joseph Dick and Grace Gullen does exist and it is dated 4 Jan 1836.
FS may have missed the original, which is why it has subsequently been  added as a submitted entry

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 28 April 13 00:07 BST (UK) »
Can I butt in?
Whenever I spot a submitted Scottish entry on the IGI, I always check that it exists on Scotlands People, who have sourced this from the OPR original.
The marriage between Joseph Dick and Grace Gullen does exist and it is dated 4 Jan 1836.
FS may have missed the original, which is why it has subsequently been  added as a submitted entry

Now that is curious, because I did the same, and it didn't come up in the SP index, which is why I didn't mention it. I wonder why it didn't?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline tidybooks

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 28 April 13 09:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Forfarian,

I think annep5892 used a different spelling or a wildcard in Gull*n, it returns the marriage with Gullan but not Gullen. Well done Anne for spotting that difference.

Tom
Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Pat(t)erson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Pat(t)erson.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 28 April 13 10:01 BST (UK) »
I think annep5892 used a different spelling or a wildcard in Gull*n, it returns the marriage with Gullan but not Gullen. Well done Anne for spotting that difference.

I could have understood that - but I just put in Joseph Dick and the date!
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline jevanji

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Re: Where are birth records for the parish of Whitburn (1815/1816) now held?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 28 April 13 10:14 BST (UK) »
Many many thanks Forfarian, tidybooks and annep5892 - you've all been really amazing and I can't believe how much information you've provided. I can't believe how dim I've been as well!! I actually thought the two would had been married in Scotland as tradition dictates she would probably have had a wedding local to where she lived, but when I did the search in Scotlands People I  stupidly had the gender field set to the wrong value as I thought it related to the Spouse's gender. I know!

I really appreciate all your help with this and I know my mother will love seeing the documents relating to the marriage of her Great-great-grandmother. Please know that you've all helped to put big smiles on our faces and I now look forward to tracing the other Great-great-great-grandparents so that I can see how I came to be  :)