Sheffield BMD before 1837

[OzzieJoan]

Please I need help with a really sticky and complicated one. I'll be as brief as possible to make it easier.

Sarah (possibly MARSDEN) b.ca.1795 married a BERRY, date unsure but presumably before the birth of Joseph in 1819. He must have died after 1826.

In 1841 Sarah is with William LEE (45) and their daughters Sarah 7 and Martha 5, as well as Joseph Berry (Burry) born 1819  William Berry (ditto) born 1826 all Sheffield except William although we know Sarah was born Birmingham.

In 1851 Sarah is widow and has children Joseph Berry 32 and Sarah 17 and Martha 15 Marsden with her.

In 1861 Sarah, still widow,  is living with her married daughter Martha.
I think her death is the one registered Sheffield Mar 1871 9c/258 age 76.

I have searched parish records that are available on Ancestry.com, Sheffield Indexers and FamilySearch but have been unable to find births for the two daughters either with the name BERRY, LEE or MARSDEN in Sheffield which is where they state they were born in each census.

Sarah snr. was born in Birmingham according to each census and her age has remained constant at a birth date of 1795. I can't be sure that MARSDEN was her surname.

I found a marriage in Sheffield of Sarah MARSDEN to Edward BERRY on 9 May 1812 but have no way of knowing if that was her real maiden name, or if she was some other Sarah.

If her daughter Sarah b.1834 is a LEE as shown in 1841 then Sarah snr. must have married William LEE somewhere between the death of her BERRY husband, unknown, and 1834.

On FreeBMD there are 8 deaths of William LEE between 1842 and 1850 in Sheffield.

As Sarah is once again a widow in 1851 and called MARSDEN as are her younger children, I wondered whether she might have taken yet another shot at marriage. There is a possible marriage on FreeBMD in June 1844 of Sarah LEE to one of 4 which includes a George MARSDEN but it took place in Huddersfield, which is a new place in the equation.

As I said, it's a muddle but if anyone can throw light on any of it I would be very grateful.

Should I post to the Warwickshire Look-ups for the birth of Sarah Marsden in 1795 in Birmingham?

I have details of Joseph and William BERRY so need no help on those, thanks.

OzzieJoan

[dobfarm]

If Sarah had any siblings in and after July 1837 there maybe a birth certificate of one of her siblings that gives Sarah's birth maiden name b 1795. These will be Lee or Marsden siblings.

[debs14]

Hi ozzie joan,
have you tried looking on Hugh wallis website,i have found it very usefull looking looking up some of my family tree
Debbie

[OzzieJoan]

If Sarah had any siblings in and after July 1837 there maybe a birth certificate of one of her siblings that gives Sarah's birth maiden name b 1795. These will be Lee or Marsden siblings.

Thanks Dob Farm but as she is already married on the 1841 census, and that is the first I can find of her, I have no way of knowing if she had any siblings. On the 1841 census she is shown as 45 so born around 1800 probably.
OzzieJoan

[OzzieJoan]

Hi ozzie joan,
have you tried looking on Hugh wallis website,i have found it very usefull looking looking up some of my family tree
Debbie

Hi Debbie, thanks for reminding me about Hugh Wallis. I have found things using the batch numbers in the past but since FamilySearch changed everything I seem to have let that system fall by the wayside. I appreciate the nudge. 

OzzieJoan

[dobfarm]

Please I need help with a really sticky and complicated one. I'll be as brief as possible to make it easier.

Sarah (possibly MARSDEN) b.ca.1795 married a BERRY, date unsure but presumably before the birth of Joseph in 1819. He must have died after 1826.

In 1841 Sarah is with William LEE (45) and their daughters Sarah 7 and Martha 5, as well as Joseph Berry (Burry) born 1819  William Berry (ditto) born 1826 all Sheffield except William although we know Sarah was born Birmingham.

In 1851 Sarah is widow and has children Joseph Berry 32 and Sarah 17 and Martha 15 Marsden with her.

In 1861 Sarah, still widow,  is living with her married daughter Martha.
I think her death is the one registered Sheffield Mar 1871 9c/258 age 76.

I have searched parish records that are available on Ancestry.com, Sheffield Indexers and FamilySearch but have been unable to find births for the two daughters either with the name BERRY, LEE or MARSDEN in Sheffield which is where they state they were born in each census.

Sarah snr. was born in Birmingham according to each census and her age has remained constant at a birth date of 1795. I can't be sure that MARSDEN was her surname.

I found a marriage in Sheffield of Sarah MARSDEN to Edward BERRY on 9 May 1812 but have no way of knowing if that was her real maiden name, or if she was some other Sarah.

If her daughter Sarah b.1834 is a LEE as shown in 1841 then Sarah snr. must have married William LEE somewhere between the death of her BERRY husband, unknown, and 1834.

On FreeBMD there are 8 deaths of William LEE between 1842 and 1850 in Sheffield.

As Sarah is once again a widow in 1851 and called MARSDEN as are her younger children, I wondered whether she might have taken yet another shot at marriage. There is a possible marriage on FreeBMD in June 1844 of Sarah LEE to one of 4 which includes a George MARSDEN but it took place in Huddersfield, which is a new place in the equation.

As I said, it's a muddle but if anyone can throw light on any of it I would be very grateful.

Should I post to the Warwickshire Look-ups for the birth of Sarah Marsden in 1795 in Birmingham?

I have details of Joseph and William BERRY so need no help on those, thanks.

OzzieJoan

Hi Joan

To save time looking all this up, can you give Sarah's b 1795 to 1800 married surname as widow (See your above) in 1851 and 1861 censuses

Also Sarah sr death married surname in 1871 age 76

[dobfarm]

Possible

John Berry to Sarah Witherington

marriage

18 January 1818

Long Itchington,Warwick,England

 
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Ajohn~%20%2Bsurname%3Aberry%20%2Bmarriage_place%3Awarwickshire~%20%2Bmarriage_year%3A1815-1820~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3Asarah~


******************************************************************
William Lee marriage to Sarah Berry

16 July 1820

Horsleydown, Surrey, England

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Awilliam~%20%2Bsurname%3Alee~%20%2Bmarriage_place%3Aengland~%20%2Bmarriage_year%3A1818-1834~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3Asarah~%20%2Bspouse_surname%3Aberry~

[OzzieJoan]

Thanks for your continuing help Dobfarm. I do think that Sarah snr would only have been seen in either Warwicks or Yks going on the birth places of her children.

I do like the idea of Wm.Lee married to Sarah Berry in Surrey but as it was in 1820 and she has listed on the censuses a son Wm. Berry b.1826 I think that would be too early a marriage to Wm.Lee.

I didn't want to confuse the issue further but when she is a widow in 1851 and 1861 she has the surname MARSDEN, as do the two daughters. However, on the marriage cert. for one daughter her father is given as Wm.Lee. Presumably it was easier for the girls to be called by the same name as Sarah snr., Marsden although not technically correct.

It's this use of the name Marsden that makes me think that could be her maiden name that she went back to after the death of Wm.Lee. Of course, there's nothing to say that she didn't marry yet again after the death of Wm.Lee, whenever that was.

I have no idea where Wm.Lee was born and it isn't an unusual name so not easy to guess. But he says N on the 1841 census which was in Sheffield. There are 8 deaths of a Wm.Lee in Sheffield between 1842 and 1850 so I think he must have been one of those. There is a set of marriages on FreeBMD which is a possible Lee/Marsden but I have still to check out the pairing on censuses. These are they:

Marriages Jun 1844   
EAGLAND       Martha    Huddersfield    22   234    
Lee               Sarah    Huddersfield    22   234    
Marsden       Geo        Huddersfield    22   234    
Otty               Jane        Huddersfield    22   234    
Taylor       John        Huddersfield    22   234    
WHITFIELD    Josh        Huddersfield    22   234

There are 2 deaths for Geo Marsden in Huddersfield and 4 for Sheffield between June 1844 and Mar.1851. So many variables.

The John Berry to Sarah Witherington marriage is interesting. Is it likely that they would have moved to Sheffield immediately after they married, do you think? That is where Joseph, her first son, is said to have been born but I have no corroboration for this as yet.

There is a long way to go with this family but if you are able to throw any more light on it I would be very grateful.

OzzieJoan

[dobfarm]

Hi Joan

Your most likely are right about William Berry born 1826 as the son of Sarah! but as its the 1841c first census! things were not always that accurate, with the census recorders and the person giving the info, maybe William Berry was a nephew in light of this marriage 1820 in Surrey of William & Sarah and needs checking out if possible. Also son Joseph Berry's birth year around 1820

My Granddads father, my great granddad, moved to Waleswood nr Rotherham in Yorkshire, then moved to Derbyshire after marriage just south of Sheffield from Warwickshire in to 1860's  to find work in mining for Coal, from being a plough man in Temple Balsall Warwickshire in the 1861 census. Then my mother his granddaughter moved to Huddersfield in Yorkshire from Derbyshire in the 1920's to find work.

Granddad was baptised in Rotherham Yorkshire and born in Warwickshire in the same year in 1867 and took ages to find his birth place. So therefore my GT granddad went back and forth to Warwickshire from Yorkshire and Derbyshire alot visiting relo's

Granddads brothers- one lived in Leek and the other Burslem Staffordshire and his youngest brother lived in Holmfirth nr Huddersfield Yorkshire- One of them was a stagecoach driver.
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A 1787 headstone

Only of recent I found a gravestone in Huddersfield and at the bottom of the stone it said in a memorial the wife had died in London and was buried there with her 2 nd husband
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A looking at random in general at censuses years of birth places!! soon reveals how people moved about them days for what ever reasons.
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