The elusive George and Dora Simmons.

[hunkyhywel]

I'm looking specifically for travel records.
George Simmons born c.1829 in Northall, Buckinghamshire, UK
I'm looking for a reference to him travelling from the UK to the USA between 1851 and 1865.
Also, I'm looking for a reference to him travelling back, from the USA to the UK after 1865.
He married a Dora Savory Webster who was born c.1841 in Eddlesborough, Buckinghamshire (but im not certain that this is 100% true).
When George moved to USA, he MAY have travelled with Dora (short for Dorothy) whom he MAY have married before travelling.
When travelling back, he MAY or MAY not have travelled with Dora.

I'd be grateful for any help!

[Lostris]

The travel dates are earlier than Ancestry's Emigration and Immigration d/base ... 

Dora is a real mystery - 3 different PoBs given from 1871 - 1911 !

No amount of searching FreeBMD brings up owt - nor early census !

Did her full name come from a childs birth cert ?

[Erato]

There are a couple of possibilities for George at Castle Garden, the entry point at New York prior to Ellis Island.  There is also a Dora Simmons listed but not on the same date as George.  There are passenger records for other ports [Boston, Philadelphia, etc.] at FamilySearch but mostly not indexed.  Also, in that time period, many people entered the United States by way of Canada.

http://www.castlegarden.org/
https://familysearch.org/

[shellyesq]

Prior thread on the same people:  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,647901.msg4945017.html#msg4945017

[*Sandra*]

!

Did her full name come from a childs birth cert ?

The link to the name of Dora Savory Webster came from birth cert of the son Arthur shown on a previous thread.  Here is the link:-

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,518238.30.html

Some passenger information was also given on this thread.  Bearing in mind that the earlier passenger lists do not have a lot of detail to positively identify people.

It has also been pointed out that UK return passenger lists do not start until 1878, unfortunately the family were back in the UK before that date.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,647901.msg4945017.html#msg4945017

Agree with Lostis that UK BMD records do not seem to show a Dorothy/Dora Savory Webster birth. Coincidentally, they did show a death of a person by that name in Ampthill - Bedfordshire (1841)but so far found nothing to link to that family.

Sandra

[Lostris]

Interesting about that Ampthill death - has to be a link? ....


Deaths Dec 1841 

WEBSTER,  Dorothy Savory    Ampthill  6 7


........... otherwise I wondered if she was really born in the USA* (earlier kids birth details might help here or the 1861 census of the US ?)

That might explain her absence from the UK pre-1871 - and just maybe she didnt want her origins known - hence the PoBs we see in UK census ?

dunno really   

*the other thread reckons Germany ....

[*Sandra*]

The only Dora Simmons travelling in the time period was one of german nationality but she was travelling with a complete family - so could be discounted.
Under reply 3 on one of the other threads :-

There was a Geo Simmons born 1829 and aged 24 years, labourer, travelling London England to New York on the Invincible arriving 8 March 1953.


Dora Simmons born 1834 and aged 19 years, Nationality was German  Departed Liverpool to New York, arriving 11 July 1853 on the Antartic. A group of Simmons were travelling together all marked as born Germany.  Place of origin of the ship was Germany. 

Dorothy or Dora could well have been in the USA and that is where the marriage took place   

Dorothy or Dora could have been married previously and Webster her first married name ?

On the off chance tried births and marriages for a Dorothy Savoury/Savory to a Webster but found nothing in the UK or USA   

The couple do not seem to appear on a US census in 1860 and would have left before the 1870.

Prior to 1906, Pennsylvania births and deaths were recorded only sporadically by the counties and some cities such as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Sources such as church registers, gravestone inscriptions and newspapers usually have to be used to obtain data for this earlier period. 

Sandra

[hunkyhywel]

Thanks for all your work so far!
Regarding the Dora Savory Webster, I know she married George as she's recorded on her son's birth certificate... so whatever death record you've found isn't my Dora!! :-P

I have found a Dorothy Webster born c.1839 in Bakewell, Derbyshire, UK.
I have found a Dora Simmons death c.1925 in Epping, Essex, which is where her family settled in the UK. Though, this record would put her age at death as in the eighties and may be her daughter, Dora's, death record.

What do we need/what can we do to try and close in on some travel records?

[*Sandra*]

Regarding the Dora Savory Webster, I know she married George as she's recorded on her son's birth certificate... so whatever death record you've found isn't my Dora!! :-P

We didn't say the death record (1841) was "your Dora"   - merely a comment on the coincidence of the use of exactly the same  name but intriguingly not being able to track any other members of that family 
We know she is listed on Arthur's birth cert, there is an extract of it on one of the other threads.
The 1907 death for George and the 1925 death of Dora Simmons in Epping look like the correct matches.

Frustratingly, there may be no travel record/passenger list  - no doubt not every one is recorded. No one has been able to turn up a passenger list, despite extensive searches in 2011 or on the many threads of 2013 both to the USA and also to Canada. 

Sandra